Aug 28, 2026 · 1 hr 35 min · 13 segments
Can we find freedom in a world of endless choice—or is deeper liberation found in the people we refuse to leave? In the first of a three-part *Lectern Dialogues* series, John Vervaeke is joined by…
Elizabeth OldfieldGuest
Christopher OldfieldGuestThe speaking matters because we are speaking creatures, but the living matters more.
So maybe you've both indicated, and Elizabeth, you just reinforced, the way you're living has a spiritual intent.
And so Could you tell me maybe some important differences in that intention and orientation from a bunch of undergrads who happen to live together or cohabitate together? Lots of people have to cohabitate together because of financial restrictions and limitations.
Like what? What are you going to talk about for an hour and 15 minutes? So it would be good if you could flesh out the distinctions that will give us a clear picture of the difference that is brought about by that difference in intention and orientation.

So maybe I'll start by saying I wouldn't look down on a bunch of undergrads living together.

I actually think that one of the reasons those friendships tend to last for a lifetime is the proximity of living in space with other people is in itself, can be in itself, actually very powerful formation.

Some people have terrible experiences, but often Something powerful is happening in those settings too, even though it's often unsaid, even though it's very under-theorized.

And it's only when you look back that you go, oh, friendship was so much easier then.
The speaking matters because we are speaking creatures, but the living matters more.
So maybe you've both indicated, and Elizabeth, you just reinforced, the way you're living has a spiritual intent.
And so Could you tell me maybe some important differences in that intention and orientation from a bunch of undergrads who happen to live together or cohabitate together? Lots of people have to cohabitate together because of financial restrictions and limitations.
Like what? What are you going to talk about for an hour and 15 minutes? So it would be good if you could flesh out the distinctions that will give us a clear picture of the difference that is brought about by that difference in intention and orientation.

So maybe I'll start by saying I wouldn't look down on a bunch of undergrads living together.

I actually think that one of the reasons those friendships tend to last for a lifetime is the proximity of living in space with other people is in itself, can be in itself, actually very powerful formation.

Some people have terrible experiences, but often Something powerful is happening in those settings too, even though it's often unsaid, even though it's very under-theorized.

And it's only when you look back that you go, oh, friendship was so much easier then.
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