Would you like to?

Go ahead.

So first of all, amen to that, right? I have no problem with secularizing, by the way.

I learned years ago that the word secular comes from the word seculum, which is Augustine's word for the present.

The secular age, and Charles Taylor's work on that, was very formative in my own life.

The idea of a porous self is huge, but also we live in a curious time where we've kind of talked ourselves out of certain ways of being and thinking and knowing and doing.

And maybe we're in a time now where we're kind of relearning the wisdom that we talked ourselves out of.

We abolish the family.