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The Prestige TV Podcast

‘Widow’s Bay’ Episodes 4-5: The Witching Hour

May 20, 2026 · 1 hr 12 min · 28 segments

Jo and Rob serve the punch to recap the fourth and fifth episodes of ‘Widow’s Bay.’ (0:00) Intro (4:51) Mailbag check-in (27:43) Episode 4 breakdown (39:08) Episode 5 breakdown (39:51) Classic drug-trip episodes (49:24) Categories Email us! prestigetv@spotify.com Follow us on IG and TikTok! Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producers: Kai Grady and Devon Renaldo Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles and Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speakers: Joanna RobinsonHostRob MahoneyHost

Top entities: Guselkumab×8 Colton Dunn×3 Halloween×5 SoBe×6 The Blair Witch Project×12

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Show signals: SuitabilitySafeBiasNot politicalPopularityPopulartop 10%Apple charts#1 · Tv-filmAudience≈9.8M followers

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Apple Card Cash Back1:00 – 1:28

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00

This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02

[chime]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02

Hey, you could be earning 2% daily cash back on that purchase.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05

[chime]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06

And that one.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07

[chime]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07

And even that one.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08

That's because Apple Card users earn 2% daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their Apple Card with Apple Pay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:17

Not an Apple Card customer? You can apply in the Wallet app on iPhone.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:21

Subject to credit approval.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:22

Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:26

Terms and more at apple.co/benefits.

Welcome to Prestige TV Podcast1:28 – 2:26

Joanna RobinsonHost1:28

[upbeat music] Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:49

I'm Joyner Robinson.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:50

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:51

We're here...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:51

It's Widows Bay day, Rob.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:53

I mean, the hour is upon us.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:55

Uh, we're here to talk about episodes four and five.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:59

Uh, we're pretty- we're feeling pretty good about the way we're covering Widows Bay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:02

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:03

But if I have any regrets, it's that we didn't-

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:05

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost2:05

... get to do an instant episode four reaction podcast.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:09

We should have been in here the m- the second the episode ended.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:12

With, like, my little-

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:13

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:13

... sort of stick figures.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:14

I just, I assume you have them at home.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:16

[laughs] I mean, I don't leave home without them, actually.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:18

That's fair.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:18

They're in the car right now.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:19

Witch stuff.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:20

Okay, so episode four, Beach Reads.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:22

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:22

Episode five, What to Expect on Your Trip.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:24

That's what we're gonna be talking about today.

Programming Updates and Studio Vibes2:26 – 4:01

Joanna RobinsonHost2:26

If you were not aware, we're covering Euphoria week to week.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:30

We are.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:31

Weird energy on a Sunday night.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:32

Big time.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:32

Coming...

Joanna RobinsonHost2:33

We come into the studio, we watch it live, and then we record fairly shortly thereafter.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:37

So I would recommend, even if you're not watching Euphoria-

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:39

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost2:40

... maybe tune into those podcasts 'cause-

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:42

We basically have Patricia's party energy.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:44

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:44

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:46

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:46

Just our mouths hanging open [laughs] in a spooky way.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:48

So that's something we're doing.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:49

We're also doing a couple sort of teen show, uh, look-back episodes.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:52

So we covered Skins, uh, UK.

R

Rob MahoneyHost2:55

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:56

Season one, episode one.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:57

Had a great time with it.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:58

A lot of people were very excited that we covered it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:00

I was very excited that we're covering it.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:01

I would say a small but vocal audience-

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:03

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost3:03

... were, like, super stoked that we covered, uh, Skins season one ep- series one, episode one, so, um-

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:08

Are, aren't those our people?

Joanna RobinsonHost3:09

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:09

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:09

[laughs] Small but very passionate about something.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

We have already recorded our Friday Night Lights episode, which we'll be running next week.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:16

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:16

And then after that, we will be checking in on five and six.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:20

Uh, six and seven, rather-

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:21

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost3:21

... 'cause they're air- it's a double drop.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:22

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:23

So if you're a Widows Bay head and you didn't know this, they're doing a double drop for six and seven.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:27

We think, though we're not sure, we think we're gonna be doing week to week after that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:31

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:32

But, uh, you folks at home, email us.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:36

Let your voices be heard.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:37

How can they email us?

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:38

PrestigeTV@spotify.com.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:40

Leave a comment.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:41

Spam those comments.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:43

Just keep that YouTube, uh, episode running in the background-

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:46

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost3:46

... whatever you're doing to keep the views up and-

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:47

Absolutely

Joanna RobinsonHost3:48

... we'll keep checking in on Widows Bay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:49

Hit the Instagram likes-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:51

Your job

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:51

... share with your friends.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:52

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:52

We're outsourcing.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:53

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:53

[laughs] It's your-

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:54

Our res- it's not our responsibility anymore

Joanna RobinsonHost3:55

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:55

it, it's your job to keep the views up.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:56

Though the views were, like, higher than we thought they'd be, so.

R

Rob MahoneyHost3:59

People are digging the show.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:00

Hell yeah, Widows Bay.

Creative Credits and Directorial Tones4:01 – 6:20

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Rob MahoneyHost4:01

I mean, how could they not?

Joanna RobinsonHost4:02

Okay, so episode four, Beach Reads, was written by Mackenzie Dor- Dorr of fucking WandaVision fame.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:08

Let's fucking go.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:09

The dark hold is here.

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:11

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost4:12

I'm thrilled.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:13

WandaVision, I love you always.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:15

And then directed by Sam Donovan, a Severance director-

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:17

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost4:17

...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:17

among other things.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:18

And then episode five, What to Expect on Your Trip, was written by Colton Dunn, who had a brief role in Parks and Recreation.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:24

I know him best for playing Garrett on Superstore, a show that I-

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:27

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost4:27

... actually, like, really enjoyed.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:29

Uh, and he's a comedy writer as well.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:30

So he wrote that episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:31

And then directed by Andrew DeYoung, who we've talked about is...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:35

I thought a comedy director.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:37

You corrected me that that is not really the vibe of his work in general.

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:41

It's complicated.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:42

Did episode five feel in, in tonally in line with what you've seen-

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:46

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost4:46

... from Andrew DeYoung? Chair Company-

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:48

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost4:48

...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:48

among other things that you've seen from him before.

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:50

I mean, it has the same whiff of, like, maybe not conspiracy, but broader suspicion-

Joanna RobinsonHost4:54

Mm

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:54

... as you're tripping out of your mind, and you don't know what's going on or who you can trust and all those elements.

R

Rob MahoneyHost4:59

But honestly, somehow this felt less insidious than The Chair Company did.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:03

So you know, there are levels to all this stuff.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:05

Even when he's staring into sort of like a blackened door, the, uh, like, abyss gazing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:10

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:10

Our guy Tom Loftus-

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:11

Oh, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost5:11

... gazing into the abyss, hearing, like, distorted sounds coming from it, and you're like, "This is child's play compared to The Chair Company."

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:19

I mean, capitalism is a hell of a thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:21

[laughs] It's true.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:21

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost5:22

We got a lot of Widows Bay emails, PrestigeTV@spotify.com.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:26

So, uh, uh, we're gonna hit a brief meal- mail bag.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:29

We're gonna check in on each individual episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:31

Our fresh, fresh as a daisy takes on episode four that everyone is, like, still clamoring for.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:36

Uh, and then-

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:37

Well, you, you joke, but people are clamoring for, I would say, specifically your takes on four.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:41

It was for me.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:42

You are seen and known in this moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:43

It, it is my favorite episode of television this season, this, this year.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:47

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:47

This year, I would say.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:47

I would certainly put it up against anything that we've covered-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:49

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:49

... and anything that I've seen so far.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:51

I love Knight of the Seven Kingdoms-

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:52

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost5:52

... as, like, a, a season of television this year.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:54

I thought it was extraordinary.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:55

We, of course, loved, uh, enjoyed covering The Pit together.

R

Rob MahoneyHost5:58

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:58

But as, like, a, an episode, an isolated episode of television that I'm gonna remember for a long time-

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:03

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost6:04

... it's gonna be the witch stuff go episode of Widows Bay, episode four.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:08

I just thought it was extraordinary.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:10

We love to see it.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:10

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:10

We love to see it done right.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:11

Mm-hmm.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:12

Like, I mean, we'll, we'll get into it in detail with the episode, but it's just... a tonal tightrope-

Joanna RobinsonHost6:16

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:16

... a masterclass in character.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:18

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:18

Like, it's just such a great episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:19

It's so good.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:20

All right.

Mailbag Kickoff and Episode 4 Praise6:20 – 8:16

Joanna RobinsonHost6:20

Jesse wrote in, and I love a theory.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:22

Jesse really came through.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:24

Jesse wrote in, said, uh, to say, "I should have sent this before episode four came out because it would've been more impressive, but oh, well.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:29

It seems to me like they haven't shown Bashir's wife yet-

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:32

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost6:33

... because she's going to be revealed to be pregnant, and the urgency to move off the island is because if they wait too long and the child is born there, they're stuck.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:40

The request for mint chocolate chip ice cream was definitely a hint in this direction." So in episode four on, on the radio or whatever she's like, "Bring home some mint chip." He's like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:46

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost6:47

... "I'm on it." This did not ping for me because mint chip ice cream is actually, like, my, one of my number one, like, go-to flavors.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:52

I love mint and chocolate together.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:54

I think it's a perfect-

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:54

I support you.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:55

You don't.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:55

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost6:55

I know you don't.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:56

Well-

Joanna RobinsonHost6:56

I know you hate mint and, and chocolate together.

R

Rob MahoneyHost6:58

I'm glad you can have that, and I can have the good flavors.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:00

Okay, great.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:01

Anyway, it didn't, it didn't ping for me as sort of...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:03

It's not like, "Bring me pickles and ice cream," and I'm like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:06

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost7:06

... "That's a pregnant lady." But for some people they're like, mint chip or ice cream, a specific ice cream re- request at all-

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:11

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:11

... pregnancy coded.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:12

This is a brilliant idea.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:13

My theory was she's dead.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:15

I far prefer she's alive-

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:17

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost7:17

...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:17

but pregnant.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:18

What do you think?

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:19

I mean, you are constantly on dead wife watch.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:21

You know, it's Nolan season.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:22

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:22

[laughs] That's what I'm saying.

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:23

Like, you've been conditioned to look for it in every corner.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:26

This does make more sense to me.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:27

It does.

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:27

And, and it certainly facilitates, you know, the talk of Bashir and his wife trying to move and-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:31

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:31

... get off the island, and it sure seems like especially in five we're kinda navigating some of that same territory-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:36

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:36

... with Tom and his wife, too, who...

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:38

I mean, are, are we to assume...

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:40

This was my assumption, that when they are on the ferry where Tom's wife first starts, like, going blind and having these complications, that they're going to the mainland, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost7:48

Yes, absolutely.

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:49

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:49

And that's, and that's-

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:49

And yeah, you gotta get the fuck outta here

Joanna RobinsonHost7:51

... presuming you weren't born there.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:53

So like my-

R

Rob MahoneyHost7:53

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost7:53

... let's, let's talk about this.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:54

The very end of episode five, right, we get these visions of, or memories of Tom and his very pregnant wife-

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:01

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost8:01

... on the ferry.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:02

I don't think the ferry goes anywhere but the mainland would be my guess.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:05

So-

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:05

I mean, it could be, it could be a-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:06

An island-hopping ferry

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:07

... an archipelago.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:08

An archip- [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:09

I, I-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:09

And as long as you stay on the islands, you're fine.

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:12

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost8:12

Um, but they're at a certain, like, to, to use Lost parlance, a certain heading, right?

Theory: Pregnancy Stakes and Island Rules8:16 – 11:23

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:16

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:17

That, um-

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:18

Where's the fuselage here?

Joanna RobinsonHost8:19

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:19

Exactly.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:20

Uh, I...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:21

So the, the theory, the legend we got early in the season was-

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:24

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost8:24

...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:24

if you go to the mainland you die.

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:26

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:26

So they didn't make it all the way there.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:28

Tom is screaming for the ferry to be turned around.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:31

So seems like she went blind on the ferry-

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:33

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost8:34

... turned it around, had the baby on the island.

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:38

They said the baby was fine.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:40

Right, but I think she had him on the i-

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:42

Oh, eventually, yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:43

I think they're back, I think they're back on the i- like, turn the ferry around.

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:46

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:46

They're back on the island.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:48

The story was she died in childbirth, right?

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:50

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:50

Complications from childbirth.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:52

But she's alive, though unwell, after the baby is born.

R

Rob MahoneyHost8:56

Well, I guess, like, are we to assume that the baby has been born, or is it just the baby is doing fine as a check?

Joanna RobinsonHost9:01

I don't think she's pregnant anymore as she's sitting in that bed.

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:04

I'm gonna be honest with you, the visual of her sitting in that bed was so terrifying to me.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:09

So scary.

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:09

I did not take a second look at it.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:10

Okay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:11

So w- we, we have to investigate the tape to see...

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:14

I mean, just our favorite game here of, like, which woman is showing at which point [laughs] in which show.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:18

We love to body check women.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:19

That's our favorite thing to do.

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:20

A, a famously fertile ground for discussion.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:22

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:22

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:23

So my interpretation was she had the baby back on the island, but she's not, clearly not well.

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:30

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:31

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:31

But we don't know what happened, and it doesn't seem to be the same story-

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:36

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost9:36

... that we've heard.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:36

As is, as is often the case on Widow's Bay, you hear one thing, you see another-

R

Rob MahoneyHost9:39

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost9:39

... or whatever, if you take certain mushrooms.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:42

Anyway, point being, if Bashir, the sheriff's wife is pregnant, this introduces different stakes to his story.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:50

You know, because I r- I love this premise about, you know, especially in episode five, um, which is all about Tom and his discomfort with lack of control.

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:00

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:01

Right?

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:01

Again, who could possibly relate?

Joanna RobinsonHost10:02

[laughs] It couldn't be us.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:04

I do fear, like, hallucinogenics because of-

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:07

Of course we do

Joanna RobinsonHost10:08

... that lack of control.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:10

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:10

Are you kidding me? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost10:11

There are other drugs where I'm like, "Sure, that's fine."

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:12

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:12

But hallucinogenics I'm like, "I'm not in control? I'm not driving the bus?"

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:16

You know, a fun, buzzy, heightened state-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:18

Sure

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:19

... sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:19

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:20

Complete lack of control and perception and-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:23

It's-

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:23

... literally understanding of where you are in place and time, n- that's gonna be a no from me.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:26

It's not for Rob and Joanna, that's for sure.

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:28

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:28

Anyway, but so he's preoccupied throughout that episode with Evan, right? So introducing Evan as, it's a very humanizing thing for Tom.

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:36

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:36

Right? Tom is, in many ways, a, a tough character, you know, is rude, is all these other things, but he cares so deeply about his son-

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:44

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost10:44

... and is so protective of his son, and so fearful for his son, praying to a god he doesn't even know, uh-

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:50

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost10:50

...

Joanna RobinsonHost10:50

if it exists, to protect his son.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:53

Um, and so introducing this idea of this danger.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:57

He doesn't know how dangerous it is out there, is what Tom says.

R

Rob MahoneyHost10:59

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:59

So this danger for Evan, a, a kid born on this island, has never left this island because Tom is so a- because this thing happened with his wife-

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:07

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost11:08

... and Tom is so afraid it's gonna happen to his son.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:10

So what is that going to do to a character like Bashir, who has a pregnant wife?

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:13

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:14

And that's really potentially very interesting, you know?

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:17

I also love the way both of these episodes are really delving into all of the mythology and the creepy stuff-

Horror Tropes Through Character Fears11:23 – 14:22

Joanna RobinsonHost11:23

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:23

... happening on the island, but in a, like, the, the stories we tell kind of way, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost11:27

Right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:27

All, all of Patricia's arc and story in episode four is so much about, like, she is so sure, or at least telling people that she's so sure that she was visited by the boogeyman.

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:35

We can-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:36

#IbelievePatricia.

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:37

I, I'm at the point where, like, I believe her, but also I, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a reveal where it was, like, a classmate playing a prank.

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:44

Like, somebody was breaking into her house-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:45

Hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:46

... as a, as a mean bit.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:47

Patricia.

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:48

But regardless, it's about, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:50

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:50

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:50

the stories you are telling out in the community, who you're telling them to-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:53

Hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:53

... what the costs of those things are.

R

Rob MahoneyHost11:55

And so for Tom and Bashir, you would think if something as intense and scary as what seems to happen to Tom's wife actually happened, someone like Bashir would know about it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:05

But also, that's maybe the kinda story you keep very tight, very quiet-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:09

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:09

... all to yourself.

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:10

I- if Bashir and his wife have all of the facts, they should be operating with a much greater sense of urgency.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:14

They should be already gone.

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:15

That's what I'm saying.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:16

Uh, provided that neither of them were born on the island, which I don't think we know that information.

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:20

Yeah, I don't think we know either.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:21

To your point, and I, and I will go back to the mail bag, but I, I really loved this interview that Katie Dippold, uh, gave The Wrap about-

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:27

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost12:27

... um, episode four, just about how they came up with the concept for the episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:31

And, and it really unlocked something for me about, like, the way in which they're thinking about these-... fun horror tropes and how they relate to these char- these, like, fully fleshed out characters-

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:41

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost12:41

... that they've created here, right? So she says, "One of the writers had this idea of a self-help book that goes wrong, and it started a conversation about what are Patricia's fears? One thing I always think about with Patricia is the thing that is scarier to her than the idea of dying is the idea of dying and no one caring about it."

R

Rob MahoneyHost12:56

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:56

"That brought in the...

Joanna RobinsonHost12:57

One thing we always try to do when we're using these horror tropes, which is tell a story about a character who is feeling very real human emotions.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:03

The conversation became what if she had a party, and we got really into the stress of throwing a party and not knowing if anyone's gonna show up.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:09

I've experienced that myself." Uh, that's Katie, but also Joanna.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:11

"I have experienced that my- that fear.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:13

Everyone in the room has experienced that or something similar.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:15

So we just went from there and really tried as much as possible to stick to that.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:18

Even though the book is scary, there's nothing scarier to Patricia in that episode than no one coming to her thing." Sidebar, I can't remember if I've talked to you about this.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:24

I know I talked to someone about this on a podcast, but, um, my friend in college used to call it a Little Man Tate party.

R

Rob MahoneyHost13:31

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:31

In the film Little Man Tate-

R

Rob MahoneyHost13:32

Okay

Joanna RobinsonHost13:32

... with Jodie Foster, she show, she throws this elaborate birthday party for her son, and nobody shows up.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:38

And so my friend Sarah in college would always be like, "What if it's a Little Man Tate party?" [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost13:42

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost13:42

"What if no one shows up?" [laughs] That's never happened to me, but it's like, um-

R

Rob MahoneyHost13:46

It is terrifying

Joanna RobinsonHost13:46

... a real, that's a real fear.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:48

But this idea of like, okay, as the writers in this incredible writers' room are plotting out the season and they're like, "Let's do a Jaws episode-"

R

Rob MahoneyHost13:55

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost13:55

... "let's do a Shining episode, let's do this," applying that idea of like what is Patricia's greatest fear to episode five, what is Tom's greatest fear, lack of control.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:03

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:03

So let's do a drug trip episode and put him out of control, I think is a really, a fun skeleton key to unlock the rest of the season as we go through these episodes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:12

Very much so.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:13

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:13

Yeah, interlocking all of that mythology and the trope stuff with the character beats.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:17

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:17

And I think specifically for Patricia and something like becoming an accidental witch where-

Accidental Witchcraft and Outsider Themes14:22 – 16:28

Joanna RobinsonHost14:22

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:22

... a lot of witch stories-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:23

The dream.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:23

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:24

I mean, [laughs] we all, we all can aspire to it.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:26

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:27

But I feel like a lot of witch stories, and specifically a lot of modern witch stories are-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:30

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:30

... about community, right? It's about covens.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:32

It's about, like, how do you connect with, you know, your sisters of the dark arts? And this is so much a story about loneliness-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:38

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:38

... and about desperation, and it...

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:39

Like, she's kind of turning to this stuff accidentally because she's, like, been shut out by her entire community.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:45

Thank you so much for talking about witches, Rob.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:47

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost14:47

It means a lot to me personally.

R

Rob MahoneyHost14:48

I, I, I love nothing more.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:49

Um, but if you think of something like, uh, Anya Taylor-Joy in The VVitch, right? Like, that, that film is about, it is about finding comm- another community-

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:00

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:00

...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:00

but about feeling on the outside of the community that you live in.

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:03

Yes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:03

Yeah, but spoiler alert, there is a community to be found.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:05

There is a community to be found at the end of the day.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:07

S- it's naked, it flies, it's great.

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:09

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost15:09

But like, [laughs] witches rule.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:12

Um, but yeah, it's about being an outsider, being misunderstood, being-

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:16

Definitely

Joanna RobinsonHost15:16

... you know, um, all of these things.

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:18

Yeah, sorry.

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:18

We got very derailed from the mailbag.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:19

That's okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:20

We're back.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:20

Sarah has a great email about Patricia's wardrobe, right? She says, "I just wanted to note that while there are many obvious nods to Stephen King throughout, was I the only one who thought a punch bowl full of pig's blood might be hidden in the rafters during Patricia's toast?"

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:32

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:32

"One slightly more subtle connection to King was Patricia's wardrobe.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:35

Top-notch tank top and great pattern clashing combos.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:39

I particularly love the culottes and red cardigan." She shouts out the costume designer Alex Bovard.

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:44

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:44

"It's no accident that as well as hints of Carrie prom queen, she's dressed throughout like Shelley Duvall in The Shining."

R

Rob MahoneyHost15:49

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:49

"Shelley had such iconic style, and Cato Flynn has a similar offbeat beauty.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:53

Wardrobe often gets overlooked, but I think they're doing fantastic work here." Thank you, Sarah, for that email.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:57

But I lo- I love that calling out that Patricia's wardrobe specifically, like, you know, this is an, this is a quirky island-

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:03

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost16:04

... full of quirky people, but everyone looks like they're dressed relatively, I would say with the exception of some of, uh, Evan's friends, who kinda look like they could be from the '70s or whatever-

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:15

As, as is our time

Joanna RobinsonHost16:16

...

Joanna RobinsonHost16:16

Cato Flynn, like, as Patricia is very Shelley Duvall, like, late 1970s coded in her wardrobe.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:24

It's a great shout.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:25

Yeah, and it's a, it's a really good call.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:26

And, and the Carrie comp is right there.

Wardrobe Easter Eggs and Bookmobile Puns16:28 – 18:04

Joanna RobinsonHost16:28

Oh, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:28

So this is kind of-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:28

I mean, the tiara is there.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:29

Like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:30

The tiara, and just kind of like the mean girl energy-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:32

Oh, yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:32

... permeating around Patricia.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:35

They're all gonna laugh at you.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:35

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:35

It's tough.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:35

First of all, shout out the Paddy Wagon, which is the name of her bookmobile, which is incredible.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:39

Not to put you on the spot, but as a book lover yourself-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:42

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:42

... do you have a name-based pun that you would embrace if you were to drive your own wagon?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:46

I need a week to think about it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:47

I would love to hear it.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:48

I will come back with some pun.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:48

It's-

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:48

I would love to hear recommendations-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:50

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:50

... to prestigetv@spotify.com.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:51

This is, I would say, your one true calling, you know?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:54

If I had a bookmobile and was a witch, this is my dream.

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:58

Can I tell you?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:59

And-

R

Rob MahoneyHost16:59

There's nothing stopping you

Joanna RobinsonHost17:00

... and a bonfire on the beach?

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:02

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:02

And potentially vengeance on my enemies? Come on.

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:05

I mean, that's really the icing on the cake.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:06

Come on.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:07

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:07

In the Paddy Wagon bookmobile donation box-

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:10

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost17:10

... along with the grimoire that finds its way there, is a copy of a Stephen King book.

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:15

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:15

They don't show the title.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:16

It just says Stephen King, but it is a copy of The Shining, because I did look up which book it was.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:20

So, um-

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:22

I mean, you impress me every day, Joanne.

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:23

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:24

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:24

Just truly incredible detective work.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:26

I learned it from you.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:26

That was some real Freeze-Frame Mahoney work, I thought.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:28

So, you know.

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:28

But this is the thing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:28

Once we get into novel book spines-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:31

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:31

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:31

I just simply don't have the point of reference.

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:32

Now, you show me a shelf of DVDs-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:35

DVDs

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:36

... from True Detective Night Country-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:37

And you're like, "Why are they watching Ferris Bueller over and over again? I have some questions."

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:40

I've sorted through some bins in my time.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:41

[laughs] That's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:42

That's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:43

We got a couple emails of people asking, you know, you brought up the great Kitty Dippold Babadook tweet, um, which she was on the Scriptnotes podcast-

R

Rob MahoneyHost17:51

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost17:51

... and they asked her about it.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:52

So shout out Craig Mazin and, and John Au- August doing the great, uh, journalism work.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:56

But how much is that Babadook tweet present in your mind when you're watching something like episode four, watching Patricia-

The Babadook Tweet and Party Energy18:04 – 19:17

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:04

Wow

Joanna RobinsonHost18:04

... at a party?

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:05

I didn't even quite put it together in that way.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:07

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:07

What's so great about the Babadook tweet is at some point in our lives we are all the Babadook, right? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost18:12

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:12

Like, we are all the Babadook in the wrong room, and so it's just Patricia's turn.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:16

When have you been the most Babadook at a party, Rob?

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:18

Man, I gotta, I gotta really think about that one.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:20

Okay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:20

It, it's not an overdressed/underdressed situation.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:22

I think it's just you're bringing the wrong energy-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:24

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:24

... to this setting.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:25

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:26

Um, so there has to be a time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:27

I mean...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:28

Here's a vision that I have of a, of a moment where Rob is the Babadook.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:31

Please.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:31

You go to, like, watch movies with some friends or something like that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:35

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:35

Not, not like your friends that you have your Leonardo DiCaprio marathon with.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:37

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:38

But like some other new friends or something like that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:39

Fringe friends.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:40

Perspective friends.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:41

Perspective friends.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:42

They're not paying attention to the movie.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:43

Oh.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:43

Oh.And you're like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:45

Heartbreaking

Joanna RobinsonHost18:45

... why are we chattering when a movie's on? That's my idea of-

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:49

It's very tough

Joanna RobinsonHost18:50

... of you, you just like instantly get a t- a hat on your head 'cause you've Babadooked yourself, you know?

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:54

That was me trying to show some friends Wet Hot American Summer.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:58

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost18:58

Maybe my favorite comedy of all time.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:00

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:00

And like the pin drop silence in that room-

Joanna RobinsonHost19:03

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:03

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:03

I was like, "Oh, no."

Joanna RobinsonHost19:03

Oh, no.

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:04

"I've really Babadooked it."

Joanna RobinsonHost19:05

[laughs] Do you wanna get stories from our listeners when they Babadooked it?

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:09

Please.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:09

Okay, presshstv@spotify.com if you've ever Babadooked it at a party.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:13

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:13

[laughs] Not, not if, when you did.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:15

When.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:15

We've all done it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:15

We know you have.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:16

We've all done it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:17

We've all done it.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:17

Okay.

Casting Curiosity and Horror Influences19:17 – 22:26

Joanna RobinsonHost19:17

Gillian wrote in with a question that, um, that was sort of like bopping around in my head-

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:23

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost19:23

... which is that the actor Kingston Rumi-Southwick, who plays Evan, who we already said we, like, really love, he is a biracial actor.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:32

The actors playing his parents are white.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:35

Um, in Presumed Innocent, the show that we saw him in previously on Apple-

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:39

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost19:39

... uh, he was the child of Ruth Negga and Jake Gyllenhaal.

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:43

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:43

So, like a biracial kid with, you know-

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:45

The sibling of Chase Infinity.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:46

The ch- sibling of Chase Infinity.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:48

So like, he's here playing the son of two very white people.

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:53

Aggressively.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:53

Um, is, is there something...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:55

You know, like, I don't think you get whiter than Welsh-

R

Rob MahoneyHost19:58

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost19:58

... and I say that as a person of Welsh extraction.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:00

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:00

Honestly, very true.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:01

Um, so you know, Gillian was sort of cooking some theories around this.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:04

I, I have been burned by these, uh, kinds of theories in my Westworld days.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:09

I don't think it's necessarily the right track to go down.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:13

But it did, it did, like, sort of raise a question mark in my, in my mind.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:16

And perhaps, you know, the show is just sort of like, "We don't care."

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:18

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:19

You know.

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:19

Well, it, it's certainly a thing-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:21

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:21

... to flag.

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:22

I think the greater mystery around his birth-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:25

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:26

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:26

the incredibly weird circumstances surrounding it-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:29

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:29

... that's up for grabs, and we're gonna be talking about it for p- potentially weeks to come.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:32

Sophie wrote in, and a couple people wrote in, uh, to note that we did not reference, uh, John Carpenter's The Fog when talking about influences.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:40

But I do wanna...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:41

And I don't get credit for this, 'cause I didn't say it into a microphone, but I do wanna say I did text Rob when we were floating back and forth some inspos for this.

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:48

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:49

I said, "It's John Carpenter's The Fog meets Stephen King's The Mist."

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:51

[laughs] You did.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:52

That was a joke I made.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:53

But I didn't say it into a microphone, so it doesn't count.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:55

But yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:55

Also, it wasn't a joke.

R

Rob MahoneyHost20:56

It's just what the show is.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:57

It is.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:58

[laughs] It is.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:58

But yeah, John Carpenter's The Fog is, uh, is very much top of mind here.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:02

Um, and then Sophie also wrote in, Sophie is a real, uh, horror movie es- expert-

R

Rob MahoneyHost21:06

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost21:06

... wrote in to say, "As an aside of my favorite with throwaway reference to a horror movie is our girl Patricia's reference to The Boogeyman." One of the things that people in the town of Haddonfield call Michael Myers, so like we were sort of already noting this, this Halloween reference.

R

Rob MahoneyHost21:19

Yep.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:19

But she says, when Patricia talked about The Boogeyman, she says she refers to her experiences as, quote, "the night he came," which is almost the exact tagline of the movie Halloween, which is "The night he came home"-

R

Rob MahoneyHost21:30

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost21:30

... uh, is the tagline for Halloween.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:31

So that's f- that's, I- totally went over my head.

R

Rob MahoneyHost21:33

Great get.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:33

Great, great shout.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:34

Great shout.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:35

John wrote in to ask us the larger question of how long should a show run.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:39

I think that's just something I wanna continue thinking about-

R

Rob MahoneyHost21:41

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost21:41

... as we go through this season.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:43

You and I were asking this question after the first three episodes of, like, how many seasons of Widow's Bay do we want? There's a part of me that wants it to run forever.

R

Rob MahoneyHost21:52

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:52

But then there's another part of me of, like, if it's, you know, if there's mysteries to be solved on an island, Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof can tell you there's a limit to that-

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:00

There is

Joanna RobinsonHost22:00

... of how many mysteries you can have on a haunted island.

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:03

But also mult- multiple seasons.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:04

Of 22 episodes-

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:06

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost22:06

... to be honest with you.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:07

Um, and then if we're doing, if we're sort of riffing on horror movie tropes, how many of those do we have to go through?

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:13

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:13

There's a ton of horror movies, but in terms of, like, those tropes, how many of those exist, you know? Do-

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:18

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost22:18

... do we move away from sort of the, like, trope of the week idea as it goes forward? Or you know.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:24

These are questions for Kitty Dippold and her writers, but-

How Long Should the Show Run?22:26 – 23:18

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:26

Truly

Joanna RobinsonHost22:26

... you know, a question for us is what's too much of a good thing-

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:30

I know

Joanna RobinsonHost22:30

... or something like that, you know?

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:31

I think these days we're inundated with so much of anything that is even remotely good-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:36

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:36

... that I'm already a finality oriented person-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:39

Yes

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:39

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:39

despite the fact that we cover TV for a living.

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:41

Uh, so the deftness which which, with which this show is dealing with its characters feels so tight and controlled, and it feels like they just have their finger on the pulse of it-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:51

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:51

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:51

this exact story.

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:53

I'm a little scared once we get past the confines of this individual season and story into what a season two could be.

R

Rob MahoneyHost22:59

But also, like, if you've earned that trust, you've earned that trust.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:02

And like, you know, we don't, we don't know if there's going to be, say, like a Dale episode or a Rosemary episode-

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:09

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost23:09

...

Joanna RobinsonHost23:09

this season, but I could see that being something we do in a season two, you know?

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:11

We can only hope and pray there's a Rosemary episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:14

I, I'm pulling for my guy Dale.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:16

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost23:16

I love him so much.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:17

All right.

Dale’s Mic Check and Local Lore23:18 – 23:55

Joanna RobinsonHost23:18

Uh, we-

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:18

Check, check.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:18

One, two.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:19

One, two.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:19

One, two, three.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:20

Check, check.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:20

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost23:21

It's a surprising complicated system.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:23

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:23

The-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:23

He doesn't have Spotify Premium.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:24

The way after Patricia scolds him-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:26

Can we get-

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:26

... and then he starts whispering it-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:27

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:27

... into the microphone.

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:28

Come on.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:28

Can we get Dale hooked up with a Spotify Premium, uh, membership?

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:31

It is literally the least we could do.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:33

I think so.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:34

Let's call The Suite-

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:34

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost23:35

... to get him on the case.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:36

We mentioned, uh, Weird New Jersey in our-

R

Rob MahoneyHost23:38

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost23:38

... previous episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:39

Our listener Beth wrote in to say, "In high school, we drove our car to a legendary spot in North New Jersey, uh, where if you put your car in neutral, it goes slowly in reverse on its own like you're being, quote, 'pulled by a ghost.' It really works and is freaky.

Haunted Houses, Helen Mirren, and Blair Witch Aftermath23:55 – 29:16

Joanna RobinsonHost23:55

The legend's that a family of farmers were killed in a car crash and they haunt the area." I have to presume, though, Beth did not, uh, note this, that you're not on any kind of incline.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:02

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:02

And that the premise, the, the idea is you're, you're presumably parked flat, and all of a sudden if your car's in neutral, it will be pulled slowly backwards.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:10

Could not be me.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:11

I will not be doing that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:12

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:12

Um, would you do that?

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:13

I think that's totally fine.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:14

That's-

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:15

I'm not going into the Boogeyman house.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:16

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:16

But a, a spooky magnetism.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:18

What if an off, what if an off-island girl would be impressed by you doing so?

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:23

[laughs] You-

Joanna RobinsonHost24:23

Something to think about

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:24

... you know, it could be negotiated.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:25

But so are you out on anything even remotely spooky, like the Winchester Mystery House?

Joanna RobinsonHost24:30

I've been to Winchester Mystery House multiple times.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:31

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:32

What is your mileage as far as that experience goes?

Joanna RobinsonHost24:34

When I was little, it scared the shit out of me.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:35

And then do you remember that they made a movie about it, The Winchester-

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:38

I actually didn't know that.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:39

Oh, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:39

Uh, with, uh, Helen Mirren-

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:41

Okay

Joanna RobinsonHost24:41

... and Jason Clarke.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:43

Wow.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:43

Um, they did the junket at the Winchester Mystery House.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:46

I went.Uh, and the only thing that could get me back to the Winchester Mystery House after being scared shitless about it as a child was the prospect of interviewing Helen Mirren, which I did inside the Winchester Mystery House, so.

R

Rob MahoneyHost24:56

It's really the only place to interview a dame.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:59

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:00

Uh, my hair was purple at the time-

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:01

[scoffs]

Joanna RobinsonHost25:01

... and she said she liked my hair.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:02

I don't think she did.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:03

I don't think she did.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:04

You don't think she-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:04

I think she was just like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:05

It was just a thing you say?

Joanna RobinsonHost25:05

I think she was shocked and alarmed by it, and she said, "I like your hair," in a way that I think-

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:09

Oh, no

Joanna RobinsonHost25:09

... she did not like my hair.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:10

That's okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:11

Dame Helen Mirren.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:11

I'm gonna choose to take her at her word.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:12

Okay, great.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:13

Believe a dame when she says something.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:15

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost25:15

Our listener Lily wrote in, um, "I didn't mention this, but I did notice, as a fellow Buffy fan," Lily said, "I couldn't not point out that the actress who plays Jerry also played Pat, Joyce's empanada-baking friend from book club in Dead Man's Party."

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:27

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:27

A true icon.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:28

Pat, a legend in this very patchy [laughs] season two episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:35

What are you saying? By patchy, you mean unimpeachable.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:37

Haunted exotic mask is, is not my favorite-

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:40

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost25:40

... trope that Buffy has ever used.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:42

I got bad news for you about Buffy in general.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:44

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:44

It's just not, not the last time that will be explored.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:46

And then all the more exciting with the Buffy connection, the fact that Jerry is now, like, one of the Scoobies.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:51

She and Rick have a, a history.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:52

They really do.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:53

I'm excited to see it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:53

And she is a, like, Smithsonian-level-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:56

She put the gloves on

R

Rob MahoneyHost25:57

... conservator.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:58

She put the gloves on, and she's a math teacher, I guess.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:01

So she does-

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:01

You really can do it all.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:02

You can.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:03

On this island-

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:04

You have to do it all

Joanna RobinsonHost26:04

... you have to do it all.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:05

All right, last question from our listener Singer: Are we shipping Patricia and Tom?

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:11

I'm not.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:11

Patricia did have a slightly weird energy when she's like, "Oh, you picked up a woman? Oh, interesting."

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:16

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:16

And part of that was the sort of, like, really funny, like, age stuff.

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:19

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:19

But was there some energy from Patricia about that?

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:21

I think there definitely could be.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:22

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:23

I, I appreciate their bond nonetheless.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:25

Follow-up question: They're leashed to each other inside of this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:28

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:29

[laughs] There's a lot happening.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:30

I love how over Tom's, like, drug trip shit she, Patricia constant- like, anytime we check back in with her, she's like, "Yes, Tom, very good."

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:38

"Use your crayons."

Joanna RobinsonHost26:39

"Use your crayons, Tom." [laughs] I'm kind of into it.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:43

I, I'm, I'm gonna keep my eye out.

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:44

I'm not not into it, but I will say the warmth regardless of when they find Patricia at the end of four and just, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost26:51

And they're like, "Come join us"

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:52

... we, w- like, "We're gonna need you."

Joanna RobinsonHost26:54

"We need you."

R

Rob MahoneyHost26:54

You know? It's a powerful thing to be needed.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:56

I got very emotional about that.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:57

One of our listeners wrote in s- saying they wanted my Blair Witch story, so I'll just say it-

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:01

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost27:01

... into a microphone, which is that when The Blair Witch Project came out, a friend of mine, still my friend to this day, uh, invited me over to his house, made pesto burgers, like, on the grill.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:13

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:14

And then I had a SoBe, which was a white flavor, which is pina colada.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:19

And then we went to go watch-

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:21

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost27:21

...

Joanna RobinsonHost27:21

The Blair Witch Project, and I got tremendously ill.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:23

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:23

And in the Chili's afterwards, I vomited in, in the bathroom, so.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:28

Wait, so you also went to Chili's?

Joanna RobinsonHost27:30

[laughs] That was not my, that was not...

Joanna RobinsonHost27:32

I wanted to go home.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:32

Oh, got you.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:33

'Cause I was ill.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:34

But-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:34

My friends who I were with were like, "Let's go hang out at Chili's."

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:37

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:37

And I was like...

Joanna RobinsonHost27:38

And then I went into the bathroom and threw up, and I came out.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:39

I was like, "I just threw up in the bathroom." They're like, "Okay, well, we ordered you a shake." I was like, "Cool story.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:43

I'm going home." [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:44

[laughs] I w- I will not be drinking that delicious chocolate shake.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:47

And for the record, that was not judgment.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:49

This is a pro-Chili's podcast.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:50

[laughs] Of course.

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:51

But you listed four great tastes that do not taste great together: The Blair Witch, a pina colada-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:57

Pesto-

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:57

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:57

SoBe, a pi- a pesto burger-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:59

I-

R

Rob MahoneyHost27:59

... and potentially a Chili's milkshake.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:01

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:01

I have not had a pesto burger since.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:04

I don't think I've ever had a-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:04

I don't even know if it's a thing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:05

It's not a thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:06

I w- I've not had it since.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:08

A white So- I don't think I've had a SoBe since.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:10

That ended my-

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:11

Bro

Joanna RobinsonHost28:11

... relationship with SoBes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:12

I don't think a lot of the w- I don't think a lot of, like, the living world has had a SoBe since.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:15

I don't think SoBes made it out of the '90s, and that's okay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:18

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:18

Um, and I am fearful of shaky cam, uh, horror movies ever since.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:23

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:23

But anyway, that's my Blair Witch.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:24

And then we ran into a guy we went to middle school with in the lobby, and he told us he saw a dead guy under a bridge once.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:29

That's a story that, that's my Blair Witch story.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:31

What a day for you.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:32

It was a day.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:33

It was a real day.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:33

So do you think it was the shaky cam-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:34

Oh

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:35

... specifically that kind of upset your system?

Joanna RobinsonHost28:37

Oh, absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:37

It wasn't the horror.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:38

It was just like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:38

Well, I was thinking it was just the pesto burger and SoBe combo.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:40

Well, perhaps if I had gone in without that unholy combination-

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:45

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost28:45

...

Joanna RobinsonHost28:45

in me, I would've b- uh, had a better time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:48

So if you would've eaten the same thing but gone to see Must Love Dogs-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:51

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:52

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:52

it would've been fine.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:53

Well, that, that's ill-inducing of its own, in its own right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:55

Could be.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:55

You know what I mean? I think if I were ever to see a shaky cam thing again-

R

Rob MahoneyHost28:59

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost28:59

... and, and I've made it my mission not to-

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:01

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost29:02

...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:02

I would go in with a completely empty stomach.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:03

It would be, like, water and saltines for that day.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:06

Treat it like a boat trip.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:07

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost29:07

That's how I think you should treat [laughs] The Blair Witch Project.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:12

This episode is brought to you by America's cookout classics, Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer.

Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer Cookout29:16 – 29:54

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:16

This summer, we're celebrating 250 years of American cookouts with all the classics: Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:22

Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario?

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:24

First of all, I want you on the aux.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:26

I trust you with that sacred responsibility-

Joanna RobinsonHost29:28

Do you?

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:28

... to pick our music.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:29

I'm gonna have to man the grill, and I'm gonna need, like, a copious amount of condiments.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:33

I need every possible fixin imaginable.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:35

Well, make sure to top your burger with only the best, Heinz ketchup and Kraft Singles.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:39

And you know it's not a cookout without Heinz ketchup and mustard.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:42

Different vibes, same ingredients.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:44

We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz, Kraft, and Oscar Mayer.

R

Rob MahoneyHost29:47

Shop at your local retailer.

A

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FanDuel Predicts Playoff Markets29:55 – 30:21

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Joanna RobinsonHost30:19

Let's get into episode four, Beach Reads.

Episode 4 ‘Beach Reads’ Deep Dive30:21 – 40:39

Joanna RobinsonHost30:21

Can I talk to you about teeth and witchcraft and mythology?

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:23

I would be disappointed if you didn't.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:25

[laughs] Teeth have been an ongoing thing-

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:26

A runner

Joanna RobinsonHost30:26

... right?

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:26

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:27

Uh, there were teeth mysteriously on the island when, when the original settlers got there.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:31

We had the tooth game in the, in the hotel episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:33

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:34

Teeth are...

Joanna RobinsonHost30:35

Listen, I'm not a witch, though I wish I was.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:37

In witchcraft in general, y- one can use fingernail clippings, hair, whatever-

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:44

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost30:44

... to sort of, like, do a spell to control-

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:46

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost30:46

... someone.So teeth is, is one of the, like, sort of key iconic things that you can use to control someone

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:53

Does seem harder to get than the other things.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:55

Well, that's what the pliers are for in, in the teeth game-

R

Rob MahoneyHost30:58

Aren't they just?

Joanna RobinsonHost30:58

-box.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:58

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:59

And then in terms of mythology, and I often am.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:02

Jason and the Argonauts.

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:03

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost31:04

Or Cadmus.

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:04

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:05

In, in, in sort of Greek mythology, there's the story of sowing dragon teeth in a field.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:11

Do you, do you ever learn this story?

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:12

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:12

Okay, so Jason, of Jason and the Argonauts fame, was given dragon teeth and told to sow them into the ground, and if he did, uh, extremely strong and powerful warriors would, uh, pop up out of the ground.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:26

Every, for every tooth you planted-

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:28

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost31:28

... a, a powerful war- warrior would pop up.

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:29

One-to-one tooth to warrior.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:31

Exactly.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:32

As you would expect and hope.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:33

Um, they're scary, they're violent.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:36

In both the Cadmus story and the Jason story, the solution to not get killed by them-

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:40

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost31:40

... is to throw a rock in the middle of them, and they each think that someone else threw the rock in the first place-

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:45

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost31:45

... and then they all kill each other.

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:47

Wow.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:47

Um, and so then-

R

Rob MahoneyHost31:48

So these guys are dumb

Joanna RobinsonHost31:50

... uh, they're dumb and they're strong.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:53

[laughs] So the, the, the phrase to sow dragon's teeth means to do something that has, that will cause a, a fight-

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:02

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost32:02

... right? Uh, in the first place.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:04

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:04

Does any of that have anything to do with this show? I don't know, but I thought while we're talking about witches, I might as well talk about mythology.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:09

We got witches, we got teeth.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:10

There could be powerful but dumb warriors in episodes to come.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:13

One can only hope, you know? It's July 1st.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:15

That's what we know from the invite, the evite that Patricia sent out.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:19

Obsessively refreshing.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:20

Sad.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:20

Really tough.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:21

Really tough to watch, honestly.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:22

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:23

July 1st, and then it's one day later in episode five, so it's July s- so I guess they're doing July 2nd fireworks?

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:28

Yeah, I guess it depends on maybe how, maybe it's like a weekend thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:32

Uh, sure, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:32

It's, it's the Friday or the Saturday, and the fourth is on a Monday, and who wants to do fireworks on a Monday?

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:37

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:37

I guess.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:38

Or maybe they plan to do it-

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:39

I guess, do-

Joanna RobinsonHost32:40

... all, all weekend

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:40

... do we have any confirmation that it's not a few days later?

Joanna RobinsonHost32:43

We do because unfortunately I was hoping it was the fourth, but Bashir said to Patricia there are some people who woke up in the ocean last night and they have some questions.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:51

That's right.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:51

So yeah, it's the second.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:51

Maybe that's just recreational-

Joanna RobinsonHost32:53

Yeah, sure [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:53

... you know? And they're blaming Patricia yet again.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:55

Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:55

So yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:56

I mean, you spike the punch one time-

Joanna RobinsonHost32:57

Just one time

R

Rob MahoneyHost32:58

... you let your, all of your friends and t- like, neighbors get overrun by the Necronomicon one time-

Joanna RobinsonHost33:04

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:04

... and this is what happens.

Joanna RobinsonHost33:05

I do have some questions for, like, how this spell works because obviously Rosemary sees right through it, you know, the whole time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:11

Well, she was getting the ingredients.

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:12

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost33:13

But when you get the, when, when we get the reveal, honestly one of the best reveals that has ever happened in all of television-

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:19

Exquisite

Joanna RobinsonHost33:19

...

Joanna RobinsonHost33:19

even though you know that, like, something's going wrong-

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:22

Of course

Joanna RobinsonHost33:23

... and a spell is being cast and all this sort of, the, the visual reveal, the d- Kevin Carroll as Bashir's delivery of the-

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:30

What the fuck are you doing? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost33:32

It's so good.

Joanna RobinsonHost33:34

So outstanding.

Joanna RobinsonHost33:35

But when she goes out into the, into the bar and sees sort of the wreckage of the party-

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:39

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost33:39

... and there's, like, little cups turned over with, like, a little bit of fur and scalp in them-

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:44

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost33:44

...

Joanna RobinsonHost33:44

I'm just sort of like... 'Cause I, I was like, "Oh, okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost33:46

As soon as they drink the punch-

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:48

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost33:48

...

Joanna RobinsonHost33:48

the spell is cast." But presumably it's cast before that because presumably you would not drink the punch if you saw a bit of a woodland critter floating in it in the first place, right?

R

Rob MahoneyHost33:56

Well, this is where I think, you know, the little, uh, centerpieces on the tables-

Joanna RobinsonHost34:00

Oh, yeah, yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:00

... or something like that could come into play.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:01

You're right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:01

Right? There is a general, uh, bewitching that has already-

Joanna RobinsonHost34:05

Yes

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:05

... happened before they ever drink the punch, for sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:07

Anya's playlist.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:08

Who knows?

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:08

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:08

Who knows what spell we're casting here?

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:09

This Is How We Do It ad supported?

Joanna RobinsonHost34:11

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:12

That's a bewitching song.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:13

This is not a bottle episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:15

I'm seeing this phrase tossed around on the internet.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:18

Not a bottle episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:19

Not what that means.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:20

What is a bottle episode?

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:20

I mean, it has to be one location primarily.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:23

Exactly.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:23

I guess every episode of Widow's Bay is kind of a bottle episode in the sense that they're on the island.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:27

I think if everything took place in the bar-

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:29

Yes, that would be a bottle episode

Joanna RobinsonHost34:30

...

Joanna RobinsonHost34:30

it could be a bottle episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:32

But I mean, the ep- like, first of all, this connect- like, this is Patricia's larger story.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:36

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:36

You know, there are reper- like, repercussions for it in episode five.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:40

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:40

Like, Bashir is still, like, this is an ongoing investigation into what happened here.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:45

And the episode ends with, like, the death of another char- you know what I mean?

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:49

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:49

Like, this is...

Joanna RobinsonHost34:51

It's a Patricia-focused episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:53

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:53

But it's not a bottle episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:55

And I don't think it's, like, a side quest in any way.

R

Rob MahoneyHost34:57

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost34:57

I think this is just all the larger woven tapestry of the island and its history.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:02

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:02

The boogeyman is definitely coming back, uh, into play at some point, so, um, it's just not a bottle episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:08

No.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:08

I would say the best bottle episodes, yes, are a self-contained adventure-

Joanna RobinsonHost35:12

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:12

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:12

but have, like, good character repercussions that transcend, but not necessarily plot repercussions.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:17

Right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:18

And as you said, there are way too many very important things happening.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:21

Right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:21

And the fact that this episode is an undercurrent where it's basically us checking in with what Patricia has been doing while the other part-

Joanna RobinsonHost35:28

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:28

... of the story has been going on, distinctly not a bottle.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:30

That also makes me really excited about episode five to see sort of, like, what exactly Patr- Patricia and Wick were up to while Tom was, [laughs] um, indisposed.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:39

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:39

Uh, a- as it were.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:40

Die in a fire, Chris.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:42

Uh, she almost did, but die in a fire.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:44

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:44

Chris sucks, right? Chris is the main mean girl.

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:47

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:47

At the same time, I did appreciate in the bar this sort of humanizing moment of, like, she's like, "All of my friends died."

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:54

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:54

So, like, she's a mean girl.

Joanna RobinsonHost35:56

She's, like, horrible-

R

Rob MahoneyHost35:58

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost35:58

... to Patricia in, in an outsized, like, bully kind of way in a, "Aren't we all adults here? Why are we still acting like we're 16?"

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:05

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost36:06

But we introduce...

Joanna RobinsonHost36:07

And again, inside of, like, a 30-minute episode, we introduce some dimensionality to this character, this Chris character-

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:15

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost36:16

... at the same time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:16

And to the social dynamics of the island as a whole.

Joanna RobinsonHost36:19

Right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:19

Right? Just this idea that it's not that it's this group of women is so cliquey that no one can break in.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:25

Like, we see this woman who just moved to town, and she's, like, just kind of ushered in and a part of the group now.

Joanna RobinsonHost36:29

Heartbreaking.

Joanna RobinsonHost36:29

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:29

It is so much about this history and about the idea that...

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:33

I mean, that part of Chris is totally understandable.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:35

If you were surrounded by that kind of tragedy, especially at a young age, the idea that somebody would be, like, trying to benefit from it for attention of all things would be so distasteful and so enraging-

Joanna RobinsonHost36:45

Sure

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:45

... that you would...

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:46

I mean, I think it'd be hard not to carry that with you for a really long time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:49

But she does that and then is just, like, making constant mean comments about Patricia.

Joanna RobinsonHost36:53

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost36:53

I think all of the ways this episode kind of-Very subtly seeds how much on the outside looking in Patricia is with basically everybody in this group.

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:01

Even something as simple as, like, "Can you take the photo of me and all my friends? We're all drinking white, but you can totally open that red." Like, it's just-

Joanna RobinsonHost37:08

Please don't open that cabinet.

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:09

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:09

And I'm like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:09

Of course not

Joanna RobinsonHost37:10

...

Joanna RobinsonHost37:10

the cabinet full of wine glasses? What the fuck are you talking about?

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:12

God forbid.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:13

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:13

But yeah, there's just so many ways in which we're told and shown that Patricia's not welcome here, doesn't feel like she's of this group even though she potentially could have been once upon a time.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:22

We also, we called out Cato Flynn as, like, an incredible performer in the first three episodes, but just, like, her body language throughout all of...

Joanna RobinsonHost37:28

Like, when she shows up with the wine in the first place to the party, and she's just, like, immediately-

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:33

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost37:34

... awkward and out of place, and, um, and then just everything thereafter.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:38

Her dancing, incredible.

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:39

Oh.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:40

Oh, so good.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:40

And then I just wanted to shout out sort of, like, the connective tissue between the episodes because as much as these feel like, you know, the hotel episode, the Sea Hag episode, et cetera, The Bachelorette party is here.

R

Rob MahoneyHost37:51

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost37:52

Uh, if you go back to episode three when Tom is asking about Patricia, and Dale says, "She's pretty caught up in her cocktail hour," right? Like, that's a fun line on rewatch.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:02

Or watching Patricia leave the voicemail that we heard Tom-

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:05

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost38:05

... listen to in episode three.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:07

You know, it's just, like, all sort of woven together in a really, really nice way.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:11

Pour One Out for the Hussies.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:12

Toby Huss's character is dead.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:14

I know.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:14

And that makes me really sad.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:15

It's too soon.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:16

Way too soon.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:16

I wanna come back to him a little bit in the categories too.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:19

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:19

Anything else you wanna say? Influences here, Carrie, Blair Witch Project, Yellowjackets for sure.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:23

Of course.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:24

True Detective season one, Wickerman, Green Man legends, et cetera, et cetera.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:27

Anything else that you want to call out?

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:30

I mean, I just, all of the witch stuff is so fun, and specifically the idea of, like, the punch as potion-

Joanna RobinsonHost38:36

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:36

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:36

the toast as incantation.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:38

Like-

Joanna RobinsonHost38:38

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:38

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:39

it just seeded so well.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:40

But also toast as in you're gonna, like, roast these, like, light them on fire?

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:44

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:44

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:45

Again, like, as a laugh per minute exercise.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:47

Yes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:47

It's a little delayed because everything that's happening with Patricia is so intense.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:51

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:51

But then once the reveal comes, and you see exactly what's been happening in the kitchen, which l- if we just wanna break it down, I mean, there are multiple blackbirds on that cutting board.

Joanna RobinsonHost38:59

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost38:59

Actually, rewind before that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:00

The way that Patricia is cutting what we're shown as strawberries-

Joanna RobinsonHost39:03

Uh-huh

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:03

... is already quite upsetting.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:05

Uh-huh.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:05

Uh, then it's revealed to be a blackbird, at least one.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:09

I think there's, like, multiple carcasses there.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:10

Squirrels and other woodland creatures.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:11

There's some kind of white furry creature.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:13

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:14

Oh, this is what you freeze framed on, not the Stephen King title, but like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:17

No. [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost39:18

[laughs] The animal corpses.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:19

I need to see the corpses.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:20

I need to see what's going on.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:21

It looks like there's maybe even, like, a nest of little blackbirds involved, also a mortar and pestle of just, like, bones and spooky roots of a kind that I'm, I'm not into, but it's, it's part of the craft.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:32

I have a question for Chef Rob.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:33

Do you have a mortar and pestle?

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:34

Of course I do.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:35

And what do you, what's your favorite thing to use it for?

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:37

Well, here's the thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:38

Are you a garlic, uh, masher person?

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:41

Economically, it just takes a lot of time.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:43

It does.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:44

So this is the, this is the problem.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:45

Mortar and pestle is the ideal way to make pesto, for example, for a pesto burger-

Joanna RobinsonHost39:49

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:49

... that will make you very sick.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:50

It's just so time intensive.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:51

It's like why would I not food process this?

Joanna RobinsonHost39:53

Sure.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:54

So-

Joanna RobinsonHost39:54

You have it as it's decorative.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:55

It's decorative.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:56

It's...

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:57

I, I would say, like, it's good for guac in particular.

Joanna RobinsonHost39:59

It is very good for guac.

R

Rob MahoneyHost39:59

That I think is the best actual practical application for mortar and pestle.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:02

And-

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:02

Or, or crushing spices.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:03

Uh, yeah, or witch stuff.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:05

How many bones have been in your mortar and pestle?

Joanna RobinsonHost40:07

Zero.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:08

Zero?

Joanna RobinsonHost40:08

So far.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:09

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost40:10

Um, we see the, the, the corpses that you have, uh, cataloged and quantified.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:14

There's also, like, a, I don't know what you call it, like, a deli sort of, like, buzzsaw situation.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:19

What is that?

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:19

Oh, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:20

You know what I mean?

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:20

It looked like a meat slicer.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:21

A meat slicer.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:22

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:22

Like, but the serrated edges was just, like, dripping with blood, so what, what did we, what did we slice?

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:27

Well, again, how are you supposed to get through that bone with just, like, a, a-

Joanna RobinsonHost40:30

Really tough

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:30

... dulled kitchen knife from the Salty Whale?

Joanna RobinsonHost40:32

She's just, like, chopping like this.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:34

Don't chop, don't chop your strawberries that way.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:36

No.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:36

Don't do it.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:37

All right, anything else you wanna say about episode four before we get to five?

From Episode 4 to Episode 540:39 – 41:47

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:39

I just fucking loved it.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:41

It was so good.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:41

And I, I will, you know, to revisit the part about Patricia's story, I don't know how to make heads or tails of that just yet as far as what's true or what's not.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:48

I almost don't exactly care or think that we need to know.

R

Rob MahoneyHost40:52

It's like the idea that she believes it's true and other people don't is enough tension for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:55

You think we're...

Joanna RobinsonHost40:56

But okay, yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost40:57

Whether or not she's telling the truth, I could see that being not revealed, but we're definitely getting a Boogeyman episode, don't you think?

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:02

There's a lot of Boogeyman references.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:04

Yeah, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:04

I mean, we visited the house.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:05

Yeah, we saw the house.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:07

I was just looking at the episode titles for the rest of the season.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:09

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:09

I don't have anything that...

Joanna RobinsonHost41:10

Like, Your Baggage, Emergency Shelter, We Hope You Enjoyed Your Time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:14

Emergency Shelter certainly sounds like maybe the cement chair door situation underneath what co- Well, it's underneath the Salty Whale.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:22

We know that.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:23

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:23

So it's not underneath the Boogeyman house.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:25

But I was gonna ask, do you think there's any bit of truth to the story among the teens about, like, this Boogeyman guy couldn't even be killed? They had to, like, put him into some kind of cement prison/grave.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:37

Some real Michael Myers shit right there.

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:39

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:40

Um, Boogeyman, we await your arrival with, with great glee.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:44

[laughs] All right, so What to Expect on Your Trip, episode five.

Episode 5 ‘What to Expect on Your Trip’41:47 – 52:01

Joanna RobinsonHost41:47

We've already talked about sort of this, like, Tom not in control thing, um, Evan saying, "One of these days I'm gonna leave, and I'm never, ever coming back."

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:55

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost41:55

And that, of course, is Tom's number one fear-

R

Rob MahoneyHost41:57

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost41:57

... which is that Evan leaves and dies, never, ever comes back, not just leaves but, like, his life is over, right?

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:03

Well, and I mean, as we're kind of teased here with everything that happened to his wife or suggested it, like, maybe there's things that are worse than death involved too.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:10

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:10

Oh.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:10

Maybe, maybe death is just one of the outcomes potentially.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:12

Never, ever coming back, like, mentally.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:14

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:14

Abrupt subject change.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:15

[laughs] Inspiration.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:17

So something that I posited to you mere minutes before we started recording is, like, should we check in on some other classic drug trip episodes of television?

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:26

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:27

I had some time to prepare for this.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:29

You had mere minutes.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:29

What did you come up with that you wanted to talk about?

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:32

I mean, as I made the list, I was like, "I love all of these episodes."

Joanna RobinsonHost42:34

I know.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:34

It's a great trove.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:35

It's a great one.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:36

The first one that came to mind for me was Six Feet Under, uh, where Ruth takes LSD, and specifically it's another, like, tightly wound-

Joanna RobinsonHost42:42

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:42

... you would never expect this person to let their guard down matriarch in that story.

Joanna RobinsonHost42:46

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:46

Uh, absolutely tripping balls.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:48

Wonderful.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:48

Uh, BoJack Horseman might be the saddest trip episode that I've ever seen.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:52

Mad Men, I mean, Roger Sterling tripping out.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:54

Again, heavily, heavy mirror involvement going on there in a way that I appreciate.

R

Rob MahoneyHost42:58

But maybe the singular one from my experience is there's a whole episode of Cowboy Bebop-

Joanna RobinsonHost43:03

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:03

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:03

in which the entire cast eats mushrooms, including Ein the corgi-

Joanna RobinsonHost43:07

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:07

... and are just off on their respective journeys-

Joanna RobinsonHost43:09

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:09

... over the course of the episode.Unbelievable TV

Joanna RobinsonHost43:11

On the ma- on the animated front, uh, the Cactus Juice episode of Avatar-

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:15

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost43:15

...

Joanna RobinsonHost43:15

The Last Airbender, incredibly good.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:18

Uh, it'll quench you.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:19

Nothing's quencher.

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:19

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost43:20

So Roger's LSD trip on Mad Men-

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:21

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost43:21

... is, is a really good shot.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:22

That's season five, episode six, Far Away Places.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:25

But season six, episode eight of Mad Men-

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:28

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost43:28

... is the crash when they all take speed in the office.

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:32

Oh, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:32

And I re-watched it, and I ac- I actually think of all sort of the drug trip episodes that I checked in on this morning briefly, that one seemed to me to be the closest.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:42

Don Dra- like Matthew Rhys' acting and Don Draper's acting is, like, very similar.

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:47

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:48

Uh, the auditory hallucinations, the, like, sounds of, like, laughter and gibbering and, like, stuff like that is there.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:54

Uh, it's a great episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:55

Kenny Crossgrove, like, tap dancing on a broken foot.

R

Rob MahoneyHost43:58

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost43:58

Like, you know, what could be better? But, like, yeah, the amphetamine episode-

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:02

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost44:02

... of Mad Men is a real one.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:04

There's a very famous, uh, and really for a good reason, episode of Roseanne where, uh, Roseanne and Dan and Jackie all smoke, uh, weed.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:15

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:15

And, and they, like, lock themselves in the bathroom, and they're just, like...

Joanna RobinsonHost44:18

It's very, very funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:20

Uh, Freaks and Geeks of course has a great-

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:22

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost44:22

... uh, Lindsay Gets High episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:24

Would you count the Watchmen nostalgia episode? I don't know if I would-

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:28

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost44:28

...

Joanna RobinsonHost44:28

but I was thinking about it in terms of that sort of, like, surreal-

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:31

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost44:31

... losing time, jumping through time.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:33

It's a supernatural drug, but, like, you know.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:35

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:36

I was gonna say, it's already kinda that sorta show.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:38

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:39

Uh, again, with that, like, very subjective, very loopy orientation.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:42

Like, I-

Joanna RobinsonHost44:42

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:43

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:43

it, it feels more of a piece with just the rest of Watchmen, to be honest with you.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:46

That's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:47

That's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:47

Spaced, one of my favorite shows of all time.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:49

I've actually never seen Spaced.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:49

Oh, you'd really like it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:50

I mean, I'm very familiar with its reputation.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:52

But, like, they're, they're watching Star Wars.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:54

They're stoned out of their mind.

R

Rob MahoneyHost44:56

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost44:56

And then Simon Pegg's character is, like, crying, and they're like, "What? What?" And he's like, "I just remembered I've got Jaffa cakes in my pocket."

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:03

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost45:03

Incredible stoned moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:05

But the thing that I was thinking about the most, and this is because of its, like, the overlap of this show and its DNA with Parks and Recreation, is the flu episode of Parks and Rec.

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:13

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:13

When Leslie is, like, trying to go about her day-

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:17

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost45:17

... with a terrible flu, including, uh, one of these, like, sort of town meeting, uh, you know, sort of moments.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:23

So I, I was thinking about Leslie Knope a lot, uh, in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:27

Also on, like, the movie front, like, thinking about, like, something like Mandy, you know, like a horror movie-

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:31

Oh, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost45:32

... that is, is very, like, drug-focused.

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:33

Oh, I think, I think often about Mandy.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:34

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:34

[laughs] Or, like, the Invariable Weight of Massive Talent, like the whole Nic Cage oeuvre.

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:38

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:38

Why not? You know? It's all, it's all fair.

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:40

Whether he's literally or just kind of metaphorically taking drugs-

Joanna RobinsonHost45:43

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:43

... it's always happening at basically every point in time.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:45

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:46

What, did you have a favorite? My favorite sort of not just the cutting in and out of time, which I thought was so good.

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:53

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost45:53

Um, but the way that the lights, like, went down and came up-

R

Rob MahoneyHost45:57

Oh, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost45:57

... on various sequences to sort of take you in and out of time I thought was so artistically, like, really interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:03

What did you, what did you like about this?

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:04

It's the kinda thing too where other, when other shows attempt to do these sorts of time jumps-

Joanna RobinsonHost46:08

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:08

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:08

it can feel clunky in the edit.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:10

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:10

And it, it really does take, like, a very particular kind of touch to make it feel organic, to make it feel germane to the story, to make it feel like, again, that you are in for an artistic process-

Joanna RobinsonHost46:19

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:19

... and not just like, "Hey, we're trying to do David Lynch," or whatever.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:22

Right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:22

It's like this did feel so cohesive in a way that I think it's just, like, cinematically very impressive.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:27

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:28

All of the buttons into, I don't know if you can button into a scene, but all of the, all of the lines into the scene, like stop yelling at me-

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:34

The unbuttoning

Joanna RobinsonHost46:34

... yeah, the unbuttoning.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:35

"Stop yelling at me, Tom," or like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:37

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost46:37

... "Just give me a name," or, like, you know, whatever the case may be, I thought that was really, really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:42

Chris Fleming is here.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:43

Chris Fleming a, a c- are you a, a Chris Fleming fan?

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:46

I, I wasn't too familiar before this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:48

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:48

But I've gone a little down the rabbit hole.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:50

Um, he's so fun here as Todd O'Connor.

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:53

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost46:53

A shaman/drug dealer.

R

Rob MahoneyHost46:56

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost46:56

Um, I love that reveal when, when Patricia's like, "Todd O'Connor?"

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:00

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:01

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost47:01

And he's like, "Hey, Patty." [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:03

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost47:03

Chris Fleming's really funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:04

Uh, I, I think he's a great comedian.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:07

Um, I don't think I've ever seen him act before.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:10

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:10

And not that this was, like, check off or anything like that, but I thought he was, like, really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:13

And it reminded me a lot, again, of Parks and Rec when you would, like, bring in people that I knew for, like, comedy-

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:18

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost47:18

... to do these, like, fun, quirky characters.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:20

I really hope we see Todd again, you know, and his lizard.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:25

Is that a lizard?

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:25

I think it was an iguana.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:26

Iguana, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:27

She has Wanderlust.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:28

That, that, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:28

She has Wanderlust.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:28

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost47:28

She had Wanderlust, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:29

In 50.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:30

I thought he was so funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:31

I thought he was really good.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:31

Here's the thing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:32

He is very funny, and, like, in a vacuum I really like those scenes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:36

I would say of all the actors and characters we've seen so far, he felt the least of Widows Bay to me.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:41

There was something about it that was like, and it's s- drawn and structured to be like this is a distinct hallucinogenic experience-

Joanna RobinsonHost47:47

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:47

... throughout this episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:48

But something about his energy was just, like, a little different.

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:50

Not in an unwelcome way, but distinct from the other townspeople, maybe deliberately.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:54

Followup question.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:55

Have you met anyone who calls themself a shaman?

R

Rob MahoneyHost47:59

Not enough.

Joanna RobinsonHost47:59

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:00

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:00

Other than you.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:01

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost48:01

I've never once referred to myself as a shaman, nor would I.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:04

But the-

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:04

If you're not a shaman on this podcast, literally what are you doing?

Joanna RobinsonHost48:07

When I lived in Northern Cal- in the Bay Area-

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:09

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost48:10

... tech capital of the world where a bunch of white dudes walk around calling themselves shaman and in order to serve you ayahuasca.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:16

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost48:16

Like, I've met so many-

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:18

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost48:18

... white guys named Todd who are like, "I'm a shaman.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:21

Come have an ayahuasca ceremony in my rec room."

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:24

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:24

Like, it's, it's a peril of the North Bay, I should say.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:27

I have not partaken, but I mean-

Joanna RobinsonHost48:29

Nor have I

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:29

... speaking to our issues-

Joanna RobinsonHost48:30

Lack of control

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:31

... of control.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:31

I'm not doing ayahuasca.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:32

No, no, no, but I would love to be somebody's spirit guide or, or just, you know, a, a hand to hold on their journey, you know?

Joanna RobinsonHost48:38

Would you do a better job than Patricia?

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:39

I would hope f- I would hope and pray.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:41

Just don't, uh, open the door.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:42

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:42

Don't open the door.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:43

[laughs] They, I mean, they just abandoned Tom so quickly at every opportunity.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:48

But Patricia at least had the excuse of, like, she's, like, wanted for questioning.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:52

You know what I mean? Like, she cannot say no to that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:55

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost48:55

But, like, leaving him with Dale, presumably not telling Dale what's going on.

R

Rob MahoneyHost48:59

Dale has no idea, and he's very worried-

Joanna RobinsonHost49:01

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:01

... for understandable reasons.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:02

When he screams-

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:04

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost49:04

... it's really good.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:05

Why, why can't Tom just go home? He's sick today.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:08

You know, is that-

Joanna RobinsonHost49:08

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:08

... out of the-

Joanna RobinsonHost49:09

Well, in theory-

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:09

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:09

the realm of possibility?

Joanna RobinsonHost49:10

... that's why they-... put him in the car with Rosemary.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:13

But again, I would not put him in a car with Rosemary

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:16

Oh, I don't think anyone put him in the car with Rosemary.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:18

Really?

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:18

'Cause it takes, if I remember correctly, it takes place after, uh, not to step on our future segments, but my favorite bit of physical comedy from Matthew Rhys-

Joanna RobinsonHost49:26

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:26

... which is the slow way he slinks across the wall and then bolts out the front door.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:29

But Patricia's still tethered to him.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:32

Are they literally tethered at that point in time? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost49:34

Yeah, she, she gets jerked out after him.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:35

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:35

But maybe he separated.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:37

I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:37

No, I think he jerks her out and she's like, "We're too busy.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:40

Put him in a car with Rosemary and take him home." But, like, that's not what I would do with Tom-

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:43

See, I-

Joanna RobinsonHost49:43

...

Joanna RobinsonHost49:43

if I were in charge

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:44

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:44

I just assumed he popped up in the middle of the road and Rosemary's like, "Okay, here, here.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:48

Let me, let me take you home."

Joanna RobinsonHost49:49

I also wanna shout out Patricia before they go over to Todd O'Connor's, uh, shaman den.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:54

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost49:55

Um, and can I just say that his, I forget what he called it, the, like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:57

The peace center

Joanna RobinsonHost49:58

...

Joanna RobinsonHost49:58

the peace center.

R

Rob MahoneyHost49:59

It's fucking perfect.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:00

Again, that's what, like, every rec room that a-

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:02

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost50:02

... white guy named Todd who's like, "Come do Ayahuasca at my house," it, like, that's what it looks like.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:06

A single lava lamp.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:07

One magic item.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:08

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:08

One magic item and a mattress with-

Joanna RobinsonHost50:10

A bare mattress

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:10

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:10

some loose blankets and s- an iguana.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:12

When Tom blows the phone call-

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:14

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost50:14

... to him and they have Patricia do it, and she essentially does the Han Solo, like, "We're all fine here.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:19

How are you?"

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:20

[laughs] "We're in conversation anyway."

Joanna RobinsonHost50:21

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:22

Really funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:22

Really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:23

Anything else you wanna shout out before we get to our categories?

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:26

Again, I really like this episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:27

I think it just has the unfortunate placement of coming after four.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:30

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:30

And so I love a trip episode, as we discussed in general.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:33

I love what this means for Tom and kinda, like, the weird, creepy, dark places-

Joanna RobinsonHost50:36

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:36

... we explore as a result of it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:38

Um, and it's, I mean, it's certainly setting up a lot of-

Joanna RobinsonHost50:41

Yeah, we're gonna get some more

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:41

... pretty dark roads-

Joanna RobinsonHost50:42

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:42

... we can go down over the rest-

Joanna RobinsonHost50:43

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:43

... of the season.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:44

I thought the fight with Evan was really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:45

Like, that's a-

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:46

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost50:46

... real fight that they're having inside of this episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:49

He's being, like, a real dick.

Joanna RobinsonHost50:51

Evan?

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:51

Evan.

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:51

Just this is an age where you just have the hardest time seeing outside yourself in general, but he knows that, like...

R

Rob MahoneyHost50:59

He knows enough to say, like, "Hey, didn't your friend just die?" But also is being, like, a real asshole to his dad specifically.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:06

That's the only line delivery from this actor that I'm like, I would've had him say it slightly more sympathetically.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:12

Because him being, like, a real shit and being like, "Is this how the phones work?" Perfect and really funny.

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:16

Very funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:17

But, like, "Wasn't he your friend?" Like, said-

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:20

It's fucked up

Joanna RobinsonHost51:20

... with, like, a little bit of a grin was very weird.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:22

That being said, you're trying to impress an off-island girl.

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:24

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:25

And I have some theories about these off-island girls-

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:26

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost51:27

... by the way.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:27

But you're trying to impress an off-island girl, and your dad comes up and does the, this thing [laughs] all the way-

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:33

Maybe I spoke too soon about the physical comedy-

Joanna RobinsonHost51:35

All, all

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:35

... 'cause that [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost51:36

... all the way around the outside of the car.

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:40

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:40

Um, I would, I would say fuck you to my dad if, if I were, like, stewing in that mortification, you know?

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:46

If you knew he was grieving? If you knew his fr- his fr-

Joanna RobinsonHost51:49

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:49

... maybe his only friend just died?

Joanna RobinsonHost51:52

Um, yes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:53

Okay, fair enough.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:53

If I'm a teenager and I'm embarrassed, yes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost51:56

Eh, that's fair.

Joanna RobinsonHost51:57

There's nothing stronger than burning shame.

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:00

A teen scorn.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:00

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:01

Yeah.

Sweetgreen New Wraps52:01 – 52:30

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Categories: Lore, Scares, and Jokes52:30 – 57:47

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:30

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:31

You know what I mean? All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:32

Well, let's go to our categories, which will allow us to talk even a little bit more about these episodes before we head out of here.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:36

Best bit of lore.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:37

Got a lot of lore.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:38

Again, these are, like, incredibly short, funny, dense episodes while... and we're getting lore downloads as we go.

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:46

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:46

What did we learn that you thought was most interesting?

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:48

I think it's gotta be Sarah Wescott Warren's creepy diary.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:51

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:51

Mm-hmm.

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:51

And f- I mean, Jay-

Joanna RobinsonHost52:52

The 1702 play?

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:53

Just, just [laughs] plugging it right back in.

Joanna RobinsonHost52:55

Oh, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:55

Torn page and all, incredible work.

R

Rob MahoneyHost52:58

Uh, but you and I have been talking about are we gonna get a full-on flashback episode? With how much, like, the founders have been mentioned, maybe even more than the Boogeyman, it seems like we're gonna get some glimpse of that life and that past eventually.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:09

I think we saw...

Joanna RobinsonHost53:11

So the opening of episode five-

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:13

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost53:14

... is a grubby man in what looks to me in, like, period clothing in the woods scrabbling for...

Joanna RobinsonHost53:20

That's not Toby Huss.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:21

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:21

Like, scrabbling for some mushrooms.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:23

In the snow.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:23

In the snow.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:24

Don't eat the spooky mushrooms.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:26

Or if you want LASIK for your third eye, eat the spooky mushrooms.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:29

I don't know.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:29

It doesn't seem worth it.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:30

I wouldn't do it, but I would be interested in someone else doing it and maybe getting their eye back.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:34

You know what? My third eye is already wide open.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:35

It's not.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:35

I'm good on the mushroom front.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:37

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost53:37

Tom, you know it's not.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:38

Going back through the footage, I think that's Hamish Linklater, who I-

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:41

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:41

... who is in this season.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:43

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:43

And, and based on portraiture, I believe is playing the founder, Richard Warren.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:48

So, like, the next episode is called Our History.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:51

I would not be surprised if it takes us into a flashback episode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:54

It certainly seems like it.

Joanna RobinsonHost53:55

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:55

I mean, we already have, you know, the weird cylinder around his neck.

R

Rob MahoneyHost53:59

What do you, what do you think is in there?

Joanna RobinsonHost53:59

I do know it's, it's heart beats in the cylinder my husband wears around his neck.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:04

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:04

And then when she's like, "But he's here, so JK, LOL, I'm going to bed."

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:08

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost54:08

Really funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:09

Heart beats in the cylinder.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:10

Are they gonna-

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:11

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost54:11

... dig him up?

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:12

Well, that's, that's the implication from Wick, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost54:13

That's what Wick wants to do, for sure.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:15

It's like, let's just, let's just dig up this grave.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:16

Let's get in that cylinder.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:17

Let's see what's going on.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:18

The idea of the true sight with the mushrooms.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:20

Uh, I also wanna shout out in the spell book, once its, its true face is revealed-

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:25

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost54:25

...

Joanna RobinsonHost54:25

the sea hag is in there.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:27

Oh.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:27

So, like, I'm glad we broke the spell, uh, by burning the book, but also was there good information in that book that we could have used befo-

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:34

Oh, you wanna use it for good.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:36

I mean, I'll...

Joanna RobinsonHost54:37

It'll be fine.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:38

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost54:39

Tom, I'm very responsible.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:41

Not at all emotionally vulnerable to manipulation.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:43

No. No.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:43

I'll be fine.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:44

The last segment of this podcast is you outlining what you like and don't like about yourself.

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:48

That's what we're coming back to.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:48

It's one line for like, and it's 10 lines for don't like, and don't worry about it.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:52

And then the Boogeyman, uh, intel.

Joanna RobinsonHost54:54

Anything else you wanna say on the lore front?

R

Rob MahoneyHost54:55

I think that's the biggest stuff for me is mostly what's going on with the diary and what it's positioning for us as far as, like, grave robbing goes.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:02

Favorite city employee.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:04

How is it not Patricia literally every week?

Joanna RobinsonHost55:06

Yeah, but if it's not Patricia...

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:08

I think if it's not Patricia, it has to be Rosemary.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:11

Tell me why it's Rosemary this week for you.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:12

Uh, she wants to be supportive, but she has a few qualms

Joanna RobinsonHost55:14

qualmsShe's a scratcher lady.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:17

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost55:17

Like, nothing could be more true-

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:19

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost55:19

... than Rosemary loves a scratcher.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:21

I love that, like, Tom caused horrible damage inside the gas station.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:26

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:27

He's banned for life.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:28

She said something about driving the car again.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:31

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost55:31

So the way in which the car is, like, at an angle and the door-

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:33

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost55:33

... is wide open and stuff like that seems like it was Tom-based, but she's still gonna get her scratcher time in, like, not to be deterred.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:39

The money's not gonna win itself.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:41

Exactly.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:42

I'm gonna give it to Dale.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:43

Shout out Dale for the DJ-ing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:45

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:45

And then, I mean, spoiler alert for my, like, favorite spook or haunt or scare, fright.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:51

Dale with the blacked-out eyes-

R

Rob MahoneyHost55:52

Oh my God

Joanna RobinsonHost55:52

... and the mismatched, uh, audio.

Joanna RobinsonHost55:55

And I think that Jeff Hiller has an incredible face, and I think he did something, like, super weird with his tongue to-

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:01

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost56:01

... make him look, like, especially horrifying.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:04

It wasn't even mismatched audio.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:06

It was like he wa- he was doing a weird tongue thing-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:08

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:08

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:08

but also just, like, not speaking at all.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:11

Haunting.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:12

Horrifying.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:12

Horrifying.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:13

But-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:13

So I'm giving it to Dale between the DJ-ing-

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:15

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost56:15

... and that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:15

Those two characters, I think, just in terms of temperament and personality-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:18

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:19

... they've had very limited screen time over the course of this season, but when you think about who would be going along for the ride as Patricia is like, "Get me these dead crows-"

Joanna RobinsonHost56:27

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:27

And also-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:27

Rosemary

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:28

... "Here's 900 songs with which-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:30

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:30

... to DJ this party," it's like Dale is just, like, go along to get along enough-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:34

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:34

... to wanna partake in it, and Rosemary is just kind of, like, gruff and mildly annoyed enough that she would do it anyway.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:39

But also she's, like, sea- she knows the sea hag lore.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:42

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:42

Like, Rosemary knows a lot, is, like, locked Tom in that room.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:46

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:46

You know, she knows a lot.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:47

She's-

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:47

Get in that crawl space

Joanna RobinsonHost56:48

... she's seen a lot.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:49

She, she cannot...

Joanna RobinsonHost56:50

You cannot phase her.

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:51

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost56:51

She's just seen too much, so if you put a, a headdress on with some antlers [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:56

The headpiece reveal is-

Joanna RobinsonHost56:58

So good

R

Rob MahoneyHost56:58

... fucking wonderful.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:00

It's so good.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:00

When you re-watch and she's like, "I'd consider it." Headpiece-

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:03

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost57:03

... is, like, what she says to refer to the tiara, and it's just a-

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:06

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost57:06

... perfect word choice because, like, I was like, "Yeah, get that dumb fucking tiara off your head."

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:12

Well, especially when Chris and the mean girls are, like, mocking her about, like, "What does she have on her head?" It's like-

Joanna RobinsonHost57:15

It's a tiara.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:16

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:16

[laughs] Turns out it's not.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:18

Well, it is of a kind.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:19

Okay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:19

Just a little more antlered than you might expect.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:21

Just a little more Yellowjacket antler queen stuff.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:23

Okay, favorite obvious joke.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:25

It's the Rhythm of the Night.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:26

[laughs] So good.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:27

I mean, the-

Joanna RobinsonHost57:28

The way it comes back in on the-

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:29

It come on, it comes back for the credits.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:31

Like-

Joanna RobinsonHost57:31

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:31

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:31

it is an incredible choice.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:33

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:33

And honestly, like, does have a certain witchy power to it.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:35

Yeah, it's a bop.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:36

It's, it's an absolute bop.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:38

Um, I don't know what, like, Corona and all of them were channeling when they wrote it and created it in the first place, but it has, it has a certain power.

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:46

It has a certain, like-

Punch-as-Potion, Music Cues, and Visual Gags57:47 – 1:01:45

Joanna RobinsonHost57:47

You think there were bone fragments in their mortar and pestle when they wrote that song?

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:50

I think the entire wave of, like, Euro house music that permeated-

Joanna RobinsonHost57:54

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:55

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost57:55

the United States specifically in the '90s all feels mythical to me.

Joanna RobinsonHost57:59

I think also, yeah, it's, like, got that chanting quality.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:01

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:01

The same way that earlier he plays Let's Dance-

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:05

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost58:05

... by David Bowie, right? So, like, um, you know, which is just, like, an invocation of a kind.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:10

David Bowie could have been a witch.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:11

I would support it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:12

Probably was.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:13

Patricia, for me, Patricia circling her shoulders first in the drawing in the book.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:19

Straight to the shoulders.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:20

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost58:20

[laughs] It's like, what? Is that a posture...

Joanna RobinsonHost58:22

I need to, like, you know, work on my posture.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:24

Is that a posture comment? I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:26

And then she just circles, like, nine other things, but it's just, like, starting with the shoulders is really funny to me.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:30

I mean, we all have things we hate about ourselves.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:32

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:32

Uh, but specifically people who have been so locked in on their shoulders.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:36

Or I'll hear people be like, "Oh my God, I hate my calves." I'm like-

Joanna RobinsonHost58:38

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:39

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:39

I mean, no offense.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:40

It's of- No, it's often because someone has said something to you-

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:43

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost58:43

... once ever, and it's like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:44

It's probably Chris

Joanna RobinsonHost58:44

... and, like, forever you're like, "My earlobes are larger [laughs] than other people's earlobes.

Joanna RobinsonHost58:49

Oh, no." Okay, favorite throwaway joke.

R

Rob MahoneyHost58:52

This one's a real throwaway, but it made me laugh a lot, and it's when the janitor comes into City Hall [laughs] during Tom's trip and says, "Oh, somebody's got a full belly.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:00

You had a lot to eat today," to the trash can.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:03

So funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:04

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:04

And doesn't apologize.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:05

Just like-

Joanna RobinsonHost59:06

No

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:06

... he's like, "Oh, are you okay?"

Joanna RobinsonHost59:07

Oh, Tom's here.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:07

Oh.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:07

"I didn't know that, I didn't know you were here."

Joanna RobinsonHost59:08

Yeah, really funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:09

Really, really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:10

This is less of, like, a throwaway joke and, I guess, more of, like, a delivery, but again, shout out Dale, shout out Jeff Hiller.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:16

When Patricia asks how many RSVPs there are and he hands her a piece of paper and she's like, "There are zero.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:20

You could have just said zero."

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:21

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost59:21

And he just says very faintly, "I didn't want to." [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:24

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost59:24

"I didn't want to." [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:26

People pleaser Dale doing his best even in a dark moment.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:30

I have, like, 50 honorable mentions for this.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:32

I also have a few.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:32

Hit me.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:32

Hit me with some.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:32

I mean, it's, it's ridiculous.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:34

I think the illustrations in the self-help book about the perfect party-

Joanna RobinsonHost59:37

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:38

... was all, like, the people having the time of their lives dressed in-

Joanna RobinsonHost59:40

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:40

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:40

in exquisite, like, cocktail attire.

Joanna RobinsonHost59:42

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:42

And then there's a giant pile of cocaine on the table.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:45

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost59:45

Well, you know.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:46

It's, it's what facilitates these things.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:48

The shoulders, of course.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:49

The speed with which Patricia shoves her fingers straight down Tom's throat-

Joanna RobinsonHost59:54

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:54

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:54

when he wants to purge the mushrooms, like, no hesitation whatsoever.

R

Rob MahoneyHost59:58

This is why you need a Patricia in your life.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:00

Yeah, absolutely.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:00

You need that person in your corner.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:01

Absolutely.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:02

What else do you have, Jo?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:03

Lucy Fors is the name of the-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:05

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:05

... author of the book.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:06

There's also Four Corners, like, a little illustration of the four corners on the front of the b- of the book when it's in self-help mode.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:12

Even just out with the old, in with the you, I would love to see the whiteboard-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:15

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:15

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:15

... of alternative self-help books-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:17

... that they came up with.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:19

In, uh, episode five when they're, when Tom checks in on the funeral-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:23

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:23

... and you're just hearing this guy tell this anecdote-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:25

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:25

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:25

... and afterwards someone says, "Just a reminder, it's not mandatory that you speak." [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:29

It's not.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:30

Um, similarly sort of off-camera, uh, when Patricia's trying to get people to stay at the party and she's like, "I'm sure the doctor has some fun, like, medical stories-"

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:38

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:38

... and he's like, "I'm off the clock." And then Ruth chimes in and she's like, "I have one.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:41

It started in the foot." [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:44

Started... [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:44

"It started in the foot."

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:44

I also, I also wrote this down.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:47

Ruth, again, is just batting 1,000.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:49

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:49

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:49

Ev- every time she pops up, every time she's supposed to be like, "Yeah, I'm going home at 3:00.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:52

I'm sorry."

Joanna RobinsonHost1:00:52

Ruth, Rosemary, Dale, like, an i- iconic-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:55

What a crew.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:00:55

The only other one I had was, uh, when Patricia is crying in the kitchen and someone busts in and she turns it into a y- a fake yawn-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:03

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:03

... to try to hide her crying.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:05

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:05

That's some, like, next level Babadooking, I think.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:07

Is it?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:08

Yeah, to cover your cry with a, with a yawn.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:10

What should you, what should you cover it with? What's, like, what's the appropriate thing?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:13

Well, she's right at the fridge.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:14

I would just, like, whip the door of the fridge open-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:16

Oh, for sure

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:16

... and, like, Mrs. Doubtfire my way through it, you know what I mean?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:18

I'm just imagining her with the full antler regalia-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:22

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:22

... attempting to do the cry yawn, and this woman's like, "What the hell is happening in here?"

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:25

Would you want it to get, like, a full sort of flash through the-I mean, like, thinking about-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:30

It would've been funny

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:31

...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:31

I guess the whole town is, uh, wired for video surveillance.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:35

Interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:36

But, like, the reveal of Patricia sitting at that-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:38

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:38

CCTV.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:39

Yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:39

Sitting at the table reading the grimoire until, like, 4:00 in the morning or whatever.

Performance Highlights and Character MVPs1:01:45 – 1:06:56

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:45

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:45

But, like, to see the grimoire in her hands or to see the antlers, you know, like to, to rewatch the episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:51

We should say, uh, just in case people are like, "You missed it," or we didn't, we didn't.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:55

During the dance in the bar-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:57

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:58

... there's like in the mirror-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:01:59

Oh, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost1:01:59

... and then one shot of everyone standing there with their mouth open.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:02

I just wanted to say it so people were like, "Did you miss this?" We did not miss that.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:05

That scene happened.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:05

What is it that's so fundamentally creepy about people with their open mouths?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:11

Mouths.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:11

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:11

You know? [laughs] It just, it's scary in a way I can't articulate, and I don't really know why.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:16

It's like, to me, it goes back to, like, Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:18

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:18

That's like a Body Snatcher-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:19

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:20

... like the point in the, like, thing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:21

Oh, very The Faculty, too-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:22

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:22

... where it's, like, all the tentacley things coming out.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:25

Oh, Faculty.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:25

Honestly, you're with us always.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:27

Always.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:27

Always.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:28

All right, uh, favorite horror movie reference/Easter egg.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:30

For this, it's sort of the subversion of our expectations around Reverend Bryce, where when he's introduced into the story specifically as Tom's friend, it's like I think one of two things is gonna happen.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:41

Either he will be the one to give Wick and Tom and their crew the download on, like, either severely or maniacally-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:48

Right

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:49

... what is happening on the island.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:50

What's the bell.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:50

Here's, here's the history.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:51

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:51

Here's what I have discovered.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:53

Or he will perform at least one exorcism.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:55

Right.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:55

But no.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:56

He gets the chance to do none of those things.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:02:58

Out of commission.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:58

Out of commission.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:02:59

Another terrifying visual of him having hung, hung himself or just be hung on the back of the door.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:04

Oh, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:05

I mean, it just...

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:06

The idea that it makes you wonder, like, what could this man have possibly seen that would lead him to this end? Maybe even enough to wanna take some spooky mushrooms yourself just to find out.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:15

Yeah, what did he see down that well?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:17

I don't wanna know what he saw down the well.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:18

I think it's gonna come back, Rob.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:20

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:21

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:21

For me, I have nothing better than our listeners' suggestion of Patricia's wardrobe.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:24

I think the-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:25

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:25

...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:25

the Carrie Shelley Duvall sort of, like, uh, invocation there.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:28

All right, best haunt, scare, spook, or fright.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:30

I already said it was Dale with his blacked out eyes and unsynced voice, or not synced at all.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:34

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:34

What, what do you have?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:35

For me, it is whatever is happening with Lauren and that very brief visual we get of her after she's been brought in and seen by the doctor, uh-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:43

Mm

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:44

... maybe still with child, maybe Evan's b- already been born.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:46

But it's, like, her sitting on the bed mute and, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:50

Vacant

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:50

... vacant and kinda possessed at the same time is just, like...

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:55

I think it-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:55

Her head at just, like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:56

Oh

Joanna RobinsonHost1:03:56

... a slight horror movie angle.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:03:57

I was shocked to see that this actress, Meredith Casey, who I think is also a comedian-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:01

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:01

... does not have an extensive acting history.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:04

Mm-hmm.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:04

Uh, 'cause she has, like, popped up again in, like, a post-hallucinogenic Dead Wife sort of way-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:07

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:07

... mostly to date.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:08

But, like, this is a physical performance even in that split second that I think is just the creepiest image that the show has shown us so far.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:14

Very tough.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:15

Very impressive, very scary.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:17

Uh, I'm terrified of everything that it portends.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:19

We did ask for a listener suggestion for categories-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:22

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:22

... and, uh, though I did not officially, like, add any, our listener Faith suggested creepiest blink and you'll miss it moment.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:29

That's probably the, the reflections I would think, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:31

The refle- I was thinking it was the reflections, but also in episode four when Patricia first brings the book home-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:38

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:39

... she puts it on her bedside table, and she puts her mug of tea on top of it.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:43

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:43

And then she goes to, like, do something and when she...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:45

And it's just, like, all one shot.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:46

And when she comes back into the frame, the mug of tea is no longer on top of the book in a sort of, like, read me kind of way.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:53

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:53

The book is like, "Get this mug of tea off of me."

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:55

I am not a coaster.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:56

I'm not a coaster.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:56

Read me.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:56

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04:56

I thought that was a really cool moment.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:04:58

I also like her reading the book at the, uh, picnic table and all the bikes colliding-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:02

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:02

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:02

... around her.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:02

The fights breaking out.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:04

New England's best kept secret, a moment where you thought, "Huh, would it actually be nice to live here?"

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:07

Okay, so the circumstances were not ideal.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:10

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:11

But the bonfire at the beach.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:12

The bonfire was nice.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:12

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:13

That could've been really nice.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:14

I-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:14

That could've been a really nice time.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:15

I really agree.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:16

Cocktails at Patricia's.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:18

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:18

A nice little dance and hang, and then off to the beach for a bonfire.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:21

That, that's a wonderful night.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:23

I have a marketing note for Patricia.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:24

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:25

If you are not, through no fault of your own perhaps, the most popular person on the island-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:28

Mm.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:28

Don't put it on the invite

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:29

... don't say, "Cocktails with Patricia."

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:31

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:32

Just say, "Sunsett cocktails," like, you know, "Come have some drinks on us, the, the town."

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:37

Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:37

Free drinks.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:39

Sure, it's animal blood, but, like, I wouldn't say cocktails with Patricia.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:43

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:43

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:44

When Chris is like, "You mean the municipal event?" [laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:47

[laughs] Well, here's the thing, who are you fooling? Like, they know that she works at City Hall.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:52

They know that she would be involved-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:53

Could be drinks with Dale

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:54

... is, is...

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:56

I mean, with all due respect to Dale, is Dale any more popular than Patricia is?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:59

Uh, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:05:59

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:05:59

[laughs] Maybe so.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:00

I definitely think he is.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:01

Uh, the Reece piece, something about Matthew Reece that you wanna shout out here.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:05

I mean-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:05

Physical comedy

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:06

... yeah, episode five is ridiculous.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:07

A ridiculous, uh, showcase for Matthew Reece.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:11

Trying to make himself vomit when he can't, and he's just like, "Ugh," [laughs] is really funny.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:16

Really incredible.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:17

I mean, he's basically like Charlie Chaplin in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:20

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:20

Like, uh, the physical comedy beats, like the, the wide-eyed, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:24

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:24

... wonder and terror at everything happening around him.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:27

The absolutely possessed way that he lunges for his loafer-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:30

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:30

... [laughs] in, in the convenience store as Amber is the Color of Your Energy plays.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:36

Which comes back at the closing credits.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:37

Amazing.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:37

I love that Amber is the Color of Your Energy plays.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:39

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:39

Yeah, the way he looks into the car, say goodnight to Little Miss was really funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:42

His clapping during the meeting-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:44

With the townspeople.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:45

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:45

... was so str- I was, like, trying to analyze, like, why does this look so strange? He's just incredible.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:52

He's a master.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:52

The Root of the Matter, what is, uh, Steven Root doing this episode that you wanna-

Wick & Jere, Shipping Board, and Evan’s Edge1:06:56 – 1:08:51

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:56

I mean, Wick and Jere, a little history.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06:58

Kept me out too late.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:06:59

I mean, they had something going on.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:00

And maybe what's old is new again.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:02

You know?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:02

Maybe again.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:02

I think, I think they could have.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:03

I, especially if Jere's gonna be part of the gang and helping them investigate some spooky artifacts.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:08

Honestly, I love seeing a version of Wick that is still kooky and driven and weird.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:13

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:14

But him getting to be, like, spirit detective Wick.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:16

Mm-hmm.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:17

Different side of him that I really appreciated.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:19

I will say Wick and Jere shot to the top of my ship...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:22

Like, if Patricia and Tom are on the shipping list for me-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:24

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:24

... it's, uh, like Wick and Jere number one.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:27

I mean, what, who else is on the list? Like...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:29

Evan and the off-island girl who might be also the sea hag.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:32

I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:33

Like, these-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:33

Is she the sea hag?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:33

I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:34

Who are these off-island girls?Who are they?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:37

They're, they're just Off Island girls.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:38

They could be, but like-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:40

Not ...

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:40

Jo, not every girl is a hag.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:42

I mean-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:43

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:43

... something to aspire to.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:45

So the shipping list, I mean, yeah, there's Tom and Patricia.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:47

We addressed that.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:48

That I think, I think a lot of people probably will be invested in that one.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:51

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:51

Uh, Tom's face and the sea hag potentially returning.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:54

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:54

Who's to say what those kids could get up to?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:56

Tom and his dead ghost wife?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:58

I mean, anything is possible-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:07:59

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:07:59

... on this island.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:00

Absolutely.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:00

She could, she could return in many terrifying forms.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:02

Yeah, yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:03

And we're rooting for them.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:04

We are.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:05

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:05

We want those two crazy kids to work it out, right? Evan.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:09

Here's what I'll say about Evan.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:09

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:10

And, and you were right to call out the, like, wasn't he your friend? The press a button, what's the system delivery was, like, really funny about the phone.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:16

Incredibly funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:17

But when, when Tom says, "I see you calculating how much you can get away with"-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:22

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:22

... which this actor had to convey with just a look, and he really did.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:26

He does.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:26

He really, really nailed it.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:29

I just think he's fantastic.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:30

I think he's so good.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:31

His physical comedic performance has been great all season.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:34

He also did the exact thing that I remember doing when I was a kid and went into my dad's office, which is I open every drawer and see what's in there.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:40

Yeah, you rifle through.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:40

Rifle through.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:40

And we found in one of my dad's drawers, like, a couple of candy bars, and we're like, "He has a candy drawer in here."

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:46

Oh, you say we.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:46

It's you and your brother?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:47

Me and my brother-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:48

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:48

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:48

both going through it simultaneously.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:49

That's the kind of bit of family lore-

Off-Island Girls Theory and Sacred Hand Geometry1:08:51 – 1:10:52

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:51

I w-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:51

... you just never let down.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:52

I went through everything-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:53

It ... awesome

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:53

...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:53

in my parents' closet.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:54

Like, constantly.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:55

How could you not?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08:56

Absolutely.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:56

You just gotta see what's going on in there.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:08:58

But we're omitting what is the clear Evan contribution of these episodes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:02

While I'm walking away-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:03

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:03

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:03

... can I just yell, "Fuck you, pig," for the girls? 'Cause here, Jo, on this podcast-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:06

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:06

... we always say, "Fuck you, pig," for the girls.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:08

We really do.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:08

We do.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:09

Basher being like, "No, the fuck you cannot," [laughs] was really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:14

Kevin Carroll's really good on this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:16

All right, theory, my only theory is these Off Island girls.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:19

I'm looking askance.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:20

Really?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:21

I mean-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:21

A single girl shows up in the story-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:23

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:23

... and it must be her fault.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:25

Who are they? Must like it's their fault, but who are they?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:27

It's true.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:28

They don't seem to have parents.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:29

They don't have any reason-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:30

How long are they here?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:30

... that they've explained for being there.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:32

I mean, g- granted that-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:32

Well, they're here for the holiday

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:33

... granted that it's only been two da- like, when I thought it was, like, a week-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:36

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:36

... you know what I mean? When I thought it was, like, the 1st and the 4th or something like that-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:38

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:38

...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:38

I'm like, how long are these girls here on this island?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:41

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:41

But if it's just been a couple days, like, okay.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:44

I think it's only been a couple days, and we live in a world now where this is the new Martha's Vineyard.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:48

It's-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:48

People are just showing up.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:49

If it was just-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:50

They're luxuriating in the fireworks.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:51

Yes.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:51

If it was just old Widow's Bay-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:53

Yeah

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:54

...

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:09:54

the Off Island girls are not showing up, but they're showing up here for the fireworks, and those fireworks are going to happen.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:09:59

A- and they did.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:00

And they did.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:01

All right, anything else you want to say about Widow's Bay?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:03

Just one more thing, Jo.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:04

Yeah.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:04

The sacred geometry of outlining your hand on a piece of paper.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:09

A, a great recurring gag in episode five, and specifically I would say how seriously Patricia ponders the drawing in the first place really made it for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:16

Well, also, and just the cut to the fact that Tom was doing the same thing.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:20

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:20

Right? Um, also, it, it made me think of you because, like, very recently you invoked hand turkey.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:26

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:27

[laughs] I did.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:27

Would you like to explain why?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:29

Would you like to explain why?

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:30

I would.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:31

I was wearing, you know, a warm colored orange shirt on this couch, was surrounded by these very tasteful pillows-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:38

Mm-hmm

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:38

... that are here at Spotify Studios, and I was looking a little like a hand turkey with my plumage.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:42

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:43

[laughs]

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:43

So, you know, it just, it's been in the ether over here.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:46

Some- sometimes you're the Babadook, sometimes you're the hand turkey.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:48

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:48

You know, these are the realities we live in.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:10:50

Thank you to Mary Chief and Carpenter for s- supporting this episode.

Wrap-Up and Credits1:10:53 – 1:11:24

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:53

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:53

Well, that is it for episodes four and five of Widow's Bay.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:56

We'll be back for, uh, Euphoria.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:10:58

We'll be back with Friday Night Lights.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:11:00

Yep.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:01

And more Widow's Bay.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:03

Thank you to Deb Rinaldo, Jacob Cornett, to everyone at Sycamore Studios, to Kai Grady, uh, from afar.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:11:09

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:09

He's in Texas.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:10

And, uh-

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:11:10

And thank you to the many blackbirds who died to make this episode possible.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:13

And thank you to the witches, and thank you to you, Rob Mahoney.

R

Rob MahoneyHost1:11:16

Thank you, Jo.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:17

In that order.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:18

Bye.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:11:18

[upbeat music]

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NOTABLE LINE5:43–6:10
Episode Four: Best Of Year
“Setting the stakes for today’s discussion.”
FUNNY33:13–33:34
Party Reveal Mic Drop
“Reliving the scene everyone’s still quoting.”
EMOTIONAL9:50–10:11
Control, Fear, And Psychedelics
“Linking the show’s theme to real-life nerves.”
INSIGHTFUL12:27–14:12
Writing The Witch Episode
“How the writers built that perfect hour.”
SPICY26:05–26:52
Are Tom And Patricia A Thing?
“A quick detour into relationship chemistry.”
AHA MOMENT6:20–6:55
Pregnancy Theory Twist
“A clever fan theory changes the stakes.”
PHILOSOPHICAL40:39–41:04
Truth Versus Belief
“What the story’s really asking us to weigh.”
FUNNY6:29–6:55
Mint Chip Debate Detour
“A sweet argument no one saw coming.”
EDUCATIONAL34:19–34:32
Not A Bottle Episode
“Clearing up a common TV misconception.”
SHOCKING1:03:35–1:04:15
The Creepiest Image So Far
“A single image that lingers uncomfortably.”

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