The Road to Emmaus with Scott Hahn
Sep 2, 2026 · 1 hr 41 min · 12 segments
In this special episode of *The Road to Emmaus*, we get a sneak peek into Dr. John Bergsma's podcast, *Stunned by Scripture*! Dr. Hahn joins Dr. Bergsma in his first-ever appearance on the show to…
Scott HahnHost
John BergsmaGuest
And so we had a lot of... a lot of cross-pollination, a lot of great discussions over dinner and that sort of thing, plus a network of friends.
And at that time, I got to study directly under Meredith G. Klein and also his protege, Gordon Hugenberger.
But in college, I had been really convinced that we were sort of misunderstanding the notion of covenant as a sort of sacred contract.
And in an exchange that is contractual, almost a legal fiction, I'm justified by faith alone.
Was this something you noticed from meditation on the Scripture directly, or were different thinkers or scholars that you were reading like...
Nobody was talking about covenant as kinship, but Klein would point out in Genesis that the image of God was pointing to divine sonship.
And he didn't develop it, but it just struck me as being, wow, that's a... that's a larger than life sort of insight.
It was my senior year as an undergraduate, I remember doing a project, an independent study on covenant.
It ended up being a 40 page paper plus a presentation where I took the notion of covenant as family to show how God was fathering us.
But also as the head of Young Life in Grove City, my senior year, I had a staff of 12 under me.
but I wrote a covenant of ministry for young life in Grove City, basically pointing how evangelizing individuals was necessary, but it was only a starting point.
I found after three and a half years of evangelizing through young life and discipleship, that if you didn't reach their family, you would lose them.
So I sought a number of people who would convert, and if they didn't have any strong family life at all, within a year or two, they would basically fall away.
And so we had a lot of... a lot of cross-pollination, a lot of great discussions over dinner and that sort of thing, plus a network of friends.
And at that time, I got to study directly under Meredith G. Klein and also his protege, Gordon Hugenberger.
But in college, I had been really convinced that we were sort of misunderstanding the notion of covenant as a sort of sacred contract.
And in an exchange that is contractual, almost a legal fiction, I'm justified by faith alone.
Was this something you noticed from meditation on the Scripture directly, or were different thinkers or scholars that you were reading like...
Nobody was talking about covenant as kinship, but Klein would point out in Genesis that the image of God was pointing to divine sonship.
And he didn't develop it, but it just struck me as being, wow, that's a... that's a larger than life sort of insight.
It was my senior year as an undergraduate, I remember doing a project, an independent study on covenant.
It ended up being a 40 page paper plus a presentation where I took the notion of covenant as family to show how God was fathering us.
But also as the head of Young Life in Grove City, my senior year, I had a staff of 12 under me.
but I wrote a covenant of ministry for young life in Grove City, basically pointing how evangelizing individuals was necessary, but it was only a starting point.
I found after three and a half years of evangelizing through young life and discipleship, that if you didn't reach their family, you would lose them.
So I sought a number of people who would convert, and if they didn't have any strong family life at all, within a year or two, they would basically fall away.
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