Church Fathers

I guess I'd be more optimistic about one's ability to believe in Roman Catholic things and be saved despite that.

As Doug Wilson says, i i don't agree with ogilson on that many things but he says a lot of people are better christians than they are logicians so i guess i'd be more optimistic about somebody's ability to fully trust in christ while having a very flawed view of the gospel so now that's not what i'd say is radical the difference i'd say the main difference is on the sacraments because the reformers describe the true church as two main things word in sacrament and that's why having a very substantial Disagreement with the consensus of the reformers and the church fathers and the sacraments is what I would say makes beliefs of people like yourself or messenger of truth different than the reformers, because it seems that without exception, all the reformers believe that baptism saves, including Zwingli.

Zwingli and Luther agreed, disagreed on the nature of Christ's presence in the Eucharist, but baptism saves is one of the 14 things they did agree on.

And we'll talk about that in just a bit.

And so that's why I think you're actually far more ecumenical than the Protestant reformers would have ever been.

I

think that might lead to one of the other points that you brought up in your video would be that basically we don't care too much about the church fathers and what they say.

I would say we can read the church fathers and we can see maybe even glean insights and learn from their wisdom.

Now here, Sean, I think we really do go beyond what the Bible teaches.

As the doctrine of the Trinity developed among the early church fathers and finally came to be codified in AD 325 at the Council of Nicaea, certain relations between the members of the Trinity were postulated that are extra-biblical in nature.

Now, as you just pointed out a moment ago, that's not to say they're anti-biblical, but they are extra-biblical.

And so the Church Fathers thought that Christ the Son was begotten by God the Father, and not in his human nature.

I think many of us might think, well, yeah, Jesus was begotten by God the Father, that's what the virgin birth is all about.

But no, no, what the church fathers are talking about is that in his divine nature, from eternity past, the Son has always been begotten by the Father.

And they would often compare this to the rays of the sun proceeding from the sun itself.

As long as the sun exists, the rays proceeding from the sun This is S-U-N now.

God's revelation is contained in the 73 books of the inspired inerrant word of God and in sacred tradition.

It is infallibly interpreted through the authoritative teaching of St. Peter and the apostles and their successors in the unanimous teaching of the church fathers and approved theologians.

According to all of these, the entire universe and all the different kinds of spiritual and corporeal creatures were created from nothing by God less than 10,000 years ago.

Hey, my friends, I just heard about a great Catholic mobile phone company that gives 100% of its profits to traditional Catholic religious orders, monasteries and Catholic media.

heavenly bridegroom tells us that scripture cannot be broken that from the beginning of creation god made them male and female that moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put your away your wives but from the beginning it was not so that saint abel the son of saint adam and saint eve lived at the foundation of the world and he said if you believed moses you would believe me for he wrote of me in the genealogies of genesis five and eleven moses gives us the information we need to determine the exact age of the universe in the words of dr of all the steps in biblical chronology from creation to christ only two steps require a genealogy the time between creation and the flood and the time between the flood and abraham and guess what these happen to be the only genealogies that have chronological information even honest secular scholars admit with doctor james bar reaches professor of hebrew at oxford university but there is no professor of hebrew or old testament as far as he knows at any world-class university who does not believe that the author or authors of genesis one to eleven intended to convey to their readers the ideas that creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience and that the figures contained in the genesis chronologies provide by simple addition of chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story now fathers good fathers orient their children in time and space and our lord said what man is there among you of whom if his son shall ask bread will he reach him a stone so if dr ross's first american ancestors arrived here from scotland in sixteen thirty he would never teach his children or allow anyone else to teach them that they arrived in seventeen thirty or eighteen thirty well our heavenly bridegroom was so determined to orient us correctly in time that he wrote the ten commandments in tablets of stone with his own hand with the finger of god and in those ten commandments there is only one in which he commanded us to remember something and that is because the other commandments can be deduced from our experience But there is nothing in our experience of nature that can tell us when, how, and over what period of time God created the heavens, the earth, the seas, and all that contain.

The only way that we can know those things is through a revelation from God.

In the days of the apostles and church fathers, there were plenty of influential pagan intellectuals like Lucretius who believed that the universe had existed for millions of years.

So if our Lord had actually used long ages of time, he would have found a receptive audience for that revelation.

His writings were translated into Latin, not into Hebrew.

And his writings and his ideology and his philosophy were essentially preserved by the church fathers, the early church fathers.

The church fathers were the leaders of the new movements of Christianity.

Usually they described as being between the first and eighth century.

But we're focusing more on the very early church fathers.

They were interested in Philo.

They translated his writings into Latin.

Then the Muslims.

Hi, and welcome to Scripture with the Church Fathers, where we are dedicated to the sacred scriptures as read through the eyes of the Church Fathers.

For our faith is the faith of our fathers.

Let us begin in prayer with our host, Son of Athanasius.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.

Amen.

Once again, thank you for joining us with Scripture with the Church Fathers.

We have continued in our pilgrimage in the Gospel according to Matthew, and we left off with a quote from St. Augustine about how to treat a brother who has gone astray and how we should approach that in bringing back.

And St. Augustine talked to us about prudence in that there may be a time that's better than others.

We'd love to hear you.

You're gonna hear, whenever you tune in, a heavy dose of not only the Bible, but the early church fathers, because they played an enormous role, Terry, in bringing me home.

When I was a fire-breathing Protestant And I knew who they were, but I was always very, you know, kind of reluctant in going in depth in their writings.

But when I then began to really dig in deep, I said, okay, why are they important? Well, these are the men that – and of course women who did a great job as well.

Yeah, of course.

That tells you everything right there.

And another thing that I'll add, another thing I'll add, the great Augustine is one of the few early church fathers – who has the incredible distinction of being named by name at multiple ecumenical councils as being one of the towering figures that the council fathers recommend people go and consume the writings of and learn.

He is one of the few that has that mark of stamp of approval from multiple ecumenical councils.

He is being cast down to what becomes, I think, a new place within the supernatural realm, which is Sheol.

Later, Church Fathers will describe this in very interesting ways.

Augustine describes it as a foggy atmosphere around our world.

It's not quite the material world.

And there's a lot of concern about that for us spiritually.

Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, our God, have mercy on us and save us.

Amen.