‘Skins’ Revisited

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Joanna RobinsonHost0:58

[upbeat music] Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:20

I'm Jonah Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:21

We're here with a very special episode of the Prestige Television Podcast.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:25

We're doing a look back at a couple high school shows that we were thinking about in relation to our coverage of Euphoria season three, and today we're talking about Skins UK.

Very important clarification.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:38

Crucially, Skins UK.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:40

We're not doing, like, a series over look.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:42

We are not-

I wish

Joanna RobinsonHost1:43

... uh, completely mental and watched seven seasons of a television show for one episode of a podcast.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:50

But we're here mostly to talk about the pilot episode, so series one, episode one of, of UK Skins, titled Tony-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:58

... after Tony Stonem.

The titular role.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:00

[laughs] Uh, the Skins himself, Nick Hoult.

[laughs] Mr.

Skins.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:04

Mr.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:05

Skins, Nick Hoult.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:06

And we're just gonna talk about sort of, um, the impact of the show at the time.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:11

Uh, it...

Joanna RobinsonHost2:11

There's been a lot of chatter recently, um, where people have been saying, like, Skins UK was the original Euphoria.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:17

But I think you could make that argument about a lot of teen shows because the general cycle of, of teen showdom is that a new show comes along and people go, "Gasp."

I know.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:27

"What? Teens are doing this? Is this okay?" And then rinse and repeat over the generations.

It's almost like being a teenager is about rebellion.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:33

What? [laughs]

Who knew?

Joanna RobinsonHost2:35

I mean, this goes back to, like, there was, like, Peyton Place back in, like, you know, uh, Splendor in the Grass in the '60s.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:41

Like, there, this has been a, a tale as old as time-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost2:44

...

Joanna RobinsonHost2:44

in terms of, like, what are the teens up to? Um, Skins UK was a show that, um, I watched, not originally when it was airing, but a little bit later, I think as part of my, like, Nick Hoult completionist phase.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:55

But, but-

What, what was your entry point? What really grabbed you by the Hoult?

Joanna RobinsonHost3:00

By the Hoult? [laughs] Thanks so much.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost3:02

Like, into my Hoult fandom or into-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost3:04

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:04

Skins?

Like, well, what, what did you first see him, and then you're like, "Oh, I wanna, I wanna see what that guy has been up to?"

Joanna RobinsonHost3:08

Well, I, uh, I saw, um, About a Boy.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:13

His, like, debut-

Of course

Joanna RobinsonHost3:13

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:13

when he was a kiddo, and I loved that, you know.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:16

I, I was a huge, uh, Nick Hornby fan.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:18

I love Hugh Grant.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:19

I love that movie.

He's so good in it, too.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:21

He is so good in it.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:22

And then I didn't see Skins-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost3:24

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:24

but then I saw A Single Man, which came out after Skins, and which, in which he plays, like, um, a young, gay, pink mohair sweater-wearing sex pot, and I was like, "What happened to the boy from About a Boy?"

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost3:36

And I missed this sort of crucial bridging, uh, Skins phase.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:39

So I did eventually go back.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:40

I, I have to imagine the reason I went back to check in on Skins was because it is the origin story for, uh, Joe Dempsie and Hannah Murray, who are two big Game of Thrones actors.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:50

And so I was just sort of like...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:51

And then I realized Dev Patel was in it, and Daniel Kaluuya.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:54

Like, there's-

It's crazy

Joanna RobinsonHost3:55

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:55

so, so this is part of what we wanted to talk about, is that teen shows as these breeding grounds-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost4:00

... for future stars and, and all the rest.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:02

Uh, this is your first foray-

It is

Joanna RobinsonHost4:04

... into Skins UK.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:06

How was your experience, Rob?

I had an awesome time.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:08

Yeah?

Uh, I would love to watch more of this show.

I mean, I knew it by reputation-

Joanna RobinsonHost4:12

Right

...

in exactly the way you described.

I think the combination of, oh, this is a very, like, edgy teenage show.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:18

Mm-hmm.

That reputation preceded it, but also the idea that it was this, like, talent scouting factory for basically a whole generation of British actors.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:25

Right.

And so in both of those ways, it is extremely Euphoria, but as you say, it's, that's kind of a, a generational transition point for a lot of these sorts of series.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:34

Some more than others.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:35

You know, when we, we thought initially about doing a month-long series and we were gonna do four different shows.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:40

And we were trying to pick shows that had either future Oscar winners or Oscar nominees in them, so Dawson's Creek-

Yep, Freaks and Geeks

Joanna RobinsonHost4:46

... uh, qualifies.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:47

Freaks and Geeks is definitely in the mix.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:49

Um, and Normal People is something that we had talked about considering doing.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:53

But, um, we landed on Skins, and then we're gonna do Friday Night Lights just because Skins is the most Euphoria-adjacent-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost4:59

...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:59

I think, and then Friday Night Lights is just so us core, ringer core-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost5:02

... you know, at the end of the day.

It's also, Friday Night Lights, not to step on that pod too much-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:06

Yeah

...

but almost like a, a failed attempt at this sort of ensemble launch pad.

Like, there's people in Friday Night Lights who really pop, a couple singular stars, but they're not necessarily who you ex- who you'd expect.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:16

Yeah.

And there isn't, like, the broad success I think of, in this case, like, some of the generations of Skins.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:21

Uh, so stay tuned, Taylor Kitsch.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:23

We're gonna talk about your career eventually.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:25

Um, so this is a, a description of Skins UK from a 2011 Guardian article about sort of one of the later seasons coming back.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:34

"Wild house parties, vats of booze, drugs and angst, and a never-ending quest for sex.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:38

Escapades that left some parents predictably outraged and their kids equally predictably thrilled." So I kinda wanted to talk to you, uh, about sort of why teen dramas, or in the case of Skins, like a dramedy, um, are eternally sort of, uh, hooky-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost5:55

... for audiences.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:56

I think titillation is a huge part of it, right?

Gotta be.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:59

Um, and then alongside that titillation, there's the, the gasp fear controversy that comes.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:05

I r- I, I don't remember if I talked about this on the pod, but-I was at the Euphoria premiere-premiere, which was at the Austin Television Festival, uh, years ago.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:15

They debuted it there.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:16

It was the opening night show.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:18

Um, Zendaya was there and a couple other cast members, and the Q&A session afterwards was just parents walking up to the mic and going, "Dear God, what is this thing?" You know, "Do you expect my child to watch this?" And then there were actually a couple quite young people in the audience because they were Zendaya fans.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:34

And so, like, a kid walked up to the microphone.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:36

Zendaya was so mortified-

Oh, no. [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost6:38

... that one of her kid fans was there, and then she was like, "Who's your parent? Why did your parent let you be here?"

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost6:43

So you know, there's this, there's this, uh, parents don't want you watching it-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost6:48

... and so the kids, of course, even more so wanna watch it.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:50

And my first experience with that was I remember in fifth grade I transferred to a new school, and I was, uh, you know, didn't know anyone, and I was meeting people.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:58

And this one girl was trying to sort of, like, connect with me, and she was like, "Do you watch 90210?" And I was like, "90210? We're in fifth grade.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:05

No." And she was like, "Okay, lame." And then I knew that I had to watch 90210-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:10

...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:10

in order to, like, be able to talk to people, even though I was in fifth grade at the time.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:14

Um, but so you get this, this titillation, this privileged peek inside a world of, of teenagers that, you know, especially if the show has any kind of reputation for getting it right-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost7:26

... which Skins UK definitely did, and we'll talk about why.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:29

Um, here's what the Parents Television Council said about Skins.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:32

Quote, "The most dangerous programme," and that's programme with two Ms and an E at the end 'cause we're in the UK.

Naturally.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:37

"The most dangerous programme that has ever been foisted on your children."

Foisted.

Who was, who was foisted? What was foisted?

Joanna RobinsonHost7:44

How old...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:44

You were a teen in 2007.

I was.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:46

Do you, did you feel represented by the depiction of teenagers in this show?

I mean, this isn't my lifestyle per se.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:53

Okay.

But it is a lifestyle.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:55

Yeah, but did you recognize people-

Oh-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:56

... you went to school with?

... completely.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:58

Okay.

I think this is the thing, like if you wanna be real about it, yes, the, the heightened style of Euphoria or sometimes of Skins or-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:06

Mm-hmm

...

Friday Night Lights, like, doesn't map one-to-one on the teenage experience.

But it's like let's not pretend this stuff isn't happening.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:12

Right.

And it's one thing to portray things accurately and then to stylize them and then to accentuate them, but I think part of the reason those teen dramas work is the same reason, like, young adult fiction works is like this is a period of life in which you feel things so intensely-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:25

Yes

... and to such dramatic extremes.

And it's like what if every character on the show was operating on those, like, complete peaks and valleys-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:33

Right

... all the time emotionally while doing the titillating things that are gonna draw viewers in? It's like that's just a good formula for melodrama.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:40

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:40

Yeah, and I think for teens in terms of that sort of you're feeling everything, everything feels enormous to you.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:46

That's why, A, why stories that are set in a supernatural world where, like, the, the puberty feelings that are your feelings sometimes are life and death.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:54

That's why Buffy the Vampire Slayer-

Sure

Joanna RobinsonHost8:56

... works so well or, you know, The Hunger Games, et cetera, et cetera.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:59

Um, but then in a teen drama, um, your problems are taken seriously.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:06

Your problems are the most impor- important problems-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost9:08

... of this show, of this world.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:10

Uh, and we'll talk about the parents and how they're depicted on these shows, but I, I think that's interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:15

So yeah, conversation starters about, like, are the kids all right? Are the kids actually doing this? I think especially it's really interesting going back and reading about the debut of Friday Night Lights in 2006 and the debut of Skins in 2007.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:28

[laughs] The word MySpace is thrown around a lot as this sort of, like, burgeoning era of social media.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:35

And now with social media, of course, we have much more access to, like, what the teens are, quote-unquote, actually doing.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:41

But for a while it was up to these often wildly inaccurate but sometimes accurate peeks inside of mainstream media of sort of like this is what your kids are up to.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:52

Just FYI, this is what they do.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:54

And, and again, there's the horror for the adults, the celebration from the kids, and then when they get it wildly wrong, like Dawson's Creek does, there's just sort of...

Joanna RobinsonHost10:04

I love Dawson's Creek, but, like, which gets mentioned in this, uh, Skins pilot.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:08

But, like, the whole point of Dawson's Creek was, like, no kid actually talks like that-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost10:12

...

Joanna RobinsonHost10:12

though at the end of the day.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:13

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:14

What was your first impression of this episode? How did, how did it work for you?

Really enjoyed it.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:18

Yeah.

I mean, it's just a straight, like, sex comedy-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:20

Mm-hmm

... setup.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:21

Yeah.

Um, it was I think more outright a comedy than I was-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:24

Yes

... expecting it to be.

And I, I think you're right to point out that it's not just drama.

Like, it is a dramedy through and through.

There are serious moments, but everything is undercut.

It's impossible to extricate, like, British sense of humor from a show like this-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:36

Right

... and an episode like this.

So I really loved it.

And you can already see, too, in a Euphoria sense the, like, character-centric episode.

Like, we're gonna, we're gonna take you through the point of view of Tony, and yeah, we're gonna transition and hand off, and you're gonna see plenty of other characters.

But it was very familiar in that way, too.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:51

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:52

This is the Tony episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:53

Um, I...

Joanna RobinsonHost10:55

So rewatching the pilot, I was, I, I was thinking about you a lot because I was like, "Okay, Rob is watching this for the first time."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:59

Is he gonna be like, "Why did you pick this show?" Or, "Why do people like this show?"

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:03

I wasn't sure-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:04

... how it would land with you in, in 2026, um, nearly 20 years later.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:09

Um, but, uh, and then I watched the second episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:13

We're not gonna talk about it in detail, but the second episode is the Cassie episode.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:16

And Hannah Murray as Cassie I think is the real hook for me for that show.

Fascinating character.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:22

As much as I'm, like, a Holt head, like, Cassie kind of is that show for me-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost11:27

... especially, like, in the, in the first two series, which is that generation.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:31

And so her episode, which is a bit more, uh, surreal and all these...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:37

I was like, "That's, that's what really got me in." 'Cause I think my recollection is I watched the first episode and I was like, "This is fascinating just to see how young these future stars are," and all these other things.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:47

But the Cassie episode, uh, is, is really what hooked me in.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:51

So these episodes are, uh, on Hulu.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:55

So you can just watch them if you haven't-

Very funny they watch this on Disney+, by the way.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:59

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:59

[laughs] There you go, or on Disney+ at the end of the day.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:01

Is there, like, a teen pilot formula that you're identifying across some of these shows?

shows?I think there's a couple of different formulas that-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:08

Yeah

...

these shows draw on.

Usually often, and I think this is one area where Skins deviates, is my experience with these shows is, like, the school is a foundational structural device.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:18

Hmm.

And we're barely in school for this first episode.

I imagine that that changes, right? That they, they probably spend more time in school at various points in the season or the show.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:26

I would say on and off.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:27

It sort of depends.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:28

Um, and, and I think one of the hooks of Skins, I think the description, one of the descriptions I read was sort of like, uh, you know, they booze, they do drugs, blah, blah, blah-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost12:38

... and then they get it for their A-levels.

Ah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:39

And sort of like the whole thing about Tony in this episode, and as you'll discover some of his other friends, is like they're actually good students.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:48

Uh, this is very, like, Cruel Intentions, right? So it's sort of like these aren't the privileged upper class students.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:54

We meet some of those, uh, students inside of this first episode.

Don't you dare track mud on that pile carpet.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:59

[laughs] But you bring your friends.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost13:00

Um, like, that's not who we're talking about.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:03

But, uh, that combination of you don't have to be...

Joanna RobinsonHost13:08

Just because you do drugs and alcohol and, and care about sex doesn't mean you're a burnout necessarily.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:12

And so that combination I think feels a little, uh, extra special and titillating in this world.

Very much so.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:17

Yeah.

And I think how do you introduce that sort of cast of characters-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:20

Mm-hmm

... and both their potential and also the behavior that they get up to without having that school setting? And this is where, like, this is a very of its time sort of I'm gonna call around to all of my friends to round them up for this party.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:31

Right.

I love that device, and it...

Honestly, like it feels dated in a sort of flip phone way but not in the rallying the troops way.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:38

Right.

Uh, and so I think that part feels very teen drama to me.

But without the school, like, being in a school gives you a great place.

Like, quickly establish a main character.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:47

Right.

Give you, like, the cliques and the hierarchy and that sense of, like, place-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:51

Yeah

... and understanding of how everything fits together.

It also lets you introduce potential foils in a way that doesn't feel too contrived, right? Like, there's rivals, there's bullies, there's jocks, there's whatever.

The closest we get to that is, like, Tony's run-in with this, like, pompous French teacher, uh, at the school he doesn't even go to.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:07

Right, right, right.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:08

Yeah.

Uh, so it's like that's kind of the closest we get to it 'cause otherwise it is just, like, a one crazy night literally bookended by Tony's neighbor changing in her mirror or in her window, like, before and after the next day.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:19

That's a real, uh, through line.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:21

Euphoria doesn't really have it.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:24

Um, but that's a real through line of teen dramas of a certain era, which is just sort of like what adult is having an inappropriate soc- sexual relationship with a child-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost14:33

... or at least, like, undressing for them at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:37

I think that's really, uh, an interesting part of all of this.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:40

Um, I think when we think about the way in which the parents are depicted in these various shows, I think it's really telling.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:46

Uh, we'll talk about sort of the adults at the center of Front Lights 'cause it's a very different construction.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:51

But here parents are idiots-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost14:54

... or neglectful.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:56

Teachers are idiots or inappropriate.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:58

There are no adults.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:00

There is an adult who shows up in the Cassie episode that is, like, kind and thoughtful and all this sort of stuff like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:06

But, but in terms of, like, the parents are most often defined by their absence and what the kids can do while they're gone.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:12

So there are no anchors or guiding lights, and that's an interesting thing when you think about a teen drama because oftentimes in these teen shows you do introduce the parents.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:23

In the first season you, you meet a lot of the parents, and then often they sort of fade into the background.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:29

Like, the, the key example is 90210 where Jim and Cindy Walsh, who are Brandon and Brenda's parents, like, move to Japan in a later season.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:38

But everyone lives in their house.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost15:40

Everyone just moves...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:40

And the same thing happens in Buffy.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:41

Everyone just, like, moves-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:42

... into the Summers house.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:43

Like that-

Just what happens

Joanna RobinsonHost15:44

... house is an important setting, but the parents-

Well, the set's already built, so [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost15:48

... become increa- increasingly irrelevant as we go on.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:51

And Skins is like what if they're irrelevant from the beginning really?

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:53

They're just buffoons, you know?

But this is a rite of passage for a teen show, right? It's almost like in a horror movie you have to have the moment where it's like, "Oh, we don't have cell reception-"

Joanna RobinsonHost16:01

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

"... to justify the plot."

Joanna RobinsonHost16:02

Right.

Like, you have to show the parents are asleep at the wheel-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:05

Mm-hmm

...

in order to say, "Where are the consequences? Where is the oversight? Why are these kids allowed to, like-"

Joanna RobinsonHost16:10

Right

... "run around all night and steal a car and drive it into a river?" It's because no one is really paying attention to them, at least with any actual detail.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:18

As you pointed out, this is essentially a sex comedy plot.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:20

But what we do get here in this first episode and does seem very key to these teen stories is a love triangle.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:28

Right? So we've got Michelle and Tony and Sid, and Cassie if you wanna make it a, a, a rectangle of some kind.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:36

Um-

A rhombus

Joanna RobinsonHost16:37

... how, how important do love triangles feel to teen drama?

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost16:41

Why, why do you think this is here?

I mean, they have to be there.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:43

Yeah.

It's- I think it's just, like, a natural pull.

It's such an easy narrative device.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:47

Yeah.

I think something we see here is it's a great one to introduce and then back burner, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:51

Mm.

It's a thing that can be a running subplot through the episodes but doesn't have to drive the story all the time.

And so I mean, who hasn't been at some point involved in a triangle of a kind? It's, it's such a relatable experience.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:02

When you, uh, perhaps have been involved in a love triangle of some kind-

Allegedly

Joanna RobinsonHost17:06

... allegedly, did you take upwards of 50 photos of one girl and just scroll through them on your flip phone?

Including, like, no, not even head.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:16

[laughs]

Just, just body shots.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then scroll through on a bus.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:18

While a man breathes over your shoulder and also looks at them?

That's just normal behavior.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:22

Great stuff.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:23

Great stuff.

At least in the UK.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:24

Did anything surprise you about this episode?

I th- I wasn't really too surprised.

I think even knowing it's a provocative show, I will say the full frontal duvet cover-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:33

Yeah

... was like, okay.

This feels...

Again, to, to bring back the Euphoria element, it's not to Euphoria's taste, but it is to Euphoria's sensibilities to do something like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:43

Right.

And so just kind of getting that, like, very stark visual out of the gate was a little surprising.

But then once you settle in, it is kind of just a mid to late 2000s sort of sex comedy plot.

One that probably would not be written even in this way today.

Like, Euphoria crosses a lot of lines and walks a lot of lines, but the, like, we need to get this girl stoned out of her mind so that she'll have sex with you, I just don't know that that's being written today.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:08

Which is such a weird-Part because Cassie shows up and she's just sort of game-

She's game, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost18:13

... from the jump.

She wants to organize jars-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:15

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:15

[laughs]

... and have sex if, if that's what you're up for.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:17

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:18

Um, this is, this is how her various OCDs manifest themselves.

I will say the one other thing that surprised me almost from a content perspective, and this is where I'd be curious to keep watching and see Cassie's episode in particular, the way that, that her eating disorder is introduced-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:33

Yes

... and talked about.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:34

Yes.

I did find, I, I wanna say pleasantly surprised, surprising based on this episode alone.

I have no context for where it goes or what happens or how it's handled, but it's like, it's so casual and almost thrown away that it's jarring.

It's like, I think so many of these teen shows fall into we have to have very serious conversations about these sorts of things as they come up, and this is like a character beat that we're navigating over the course of the episode.

But the show never bogs down to have the serious talk about it.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:03

Cassie's eating disorder, I think, is the most des- defining characteristic of her-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost19:07

... of her, uh, experience through the show.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:09

And she's sort of in and out of treat- I, I think you would find it less of like a footnote of, part of her character-

Gotcha

Joanna RobinsonHost19:17

... and more of a, an anchor of her character.

It's, it's not even that it's a footnote.

It's just more like they introduce it without belaboring the point-

Joanna RobinsonHost19:23

Yeah

... and almost like treat it as a bit.

You know, it's like-

Joanna RobinsonHost19:25

Oh, yeah, no, they, they make jokes about it-

Completely

Joanna RobinsonHost19:27

... throughout.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:27

And, and that's part of Skins, um, the, the joy of Skins is how, like, irrelev- irreverent it is-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost19:34

...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:34

in terms of these very serious issues.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:36

And to your point, there are other teen shows where if someone has an eating disorder, that is like-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:42

...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:42

the serious issue of, uh, the week.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:45

And in this case, it's something that Cassie is going to struggle with her entire run on the show, uh, along with other mental health concerns.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:52

But the fact that you've got someone here who has, uh, m- mental health issues that she's struggling with, um, you've got teens from all different like cultural backgrounds.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:02

You've got a queer teen.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:03

You've got Tony.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:04

It does- it's not, uh, dealt with in the pilot here, but Tony is...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:09

Uh, the term they used at the time was polysexual, which is not really a term we, we really use anymore.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:14

But essentially, he's pansexual.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:15

And so, like, that, you know, this, uh, this attractive, manipulative, uh, smart teenager who will sleep with anyone because sex is like power and that's of interest to him is a new character inside of the-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost20:31

...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:31

the teen drama or comedy world.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:33

And like, eh, uh, an odd character to anchor your POV, uh, in your first episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:39

And even at the center of a tone like this, which is a sex comedy-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost20:43

... to have a Tony Stonem at the center of it is interesting, I think, so.

See, you say it's a new character, and I, I agree broadly.

But there are hints of that, like, Ryan Phillippe and Cruel Intentions-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:54

No, it's-

... sorta thing here

Joanna RobinsonHost20:54

... it's definitely Ryan Phillippe and Cruel Intentions, but it's, but Cruel Intentions is like, it's different in a movie versus a TV show-

Very, yes

Joanna RobinsonHost21:05

...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:05

I feel like, you know? And, um, and, and, and also, like, Reese Witherspoon's character is sort of supposed to be your POV inside-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost21:12

... of Cruel Intentions to a certain degree.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:14

But, um, on the, on the most convincing, least convincing.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:18

So this will come more into play with Friday Night Lights because there are some real 20-somethings in that show, and this was sort of a running joke through 90210 into Dawson's Creek, et cetera, et cetera, of like, who are these 20-something, sometimes 30-somethings playing teenagers? Um, in Skins UK, it's teenagers.

Literal teenagers.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:37

Not just teenagers in the cast, but teenagers in the writing room, and we'll talk about that in a little bit.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:41

We're not here to call out anyone for being too old for the role necessarily.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:45

But who feels like most identifi- fiably like a, an actual teenager to you in this, uh, pilot episode?

I feel like it's gotta be Dev Patel.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:52

Okay, tell me.

I just think he has, like, a I haven't quite grown into my limbs kind of physicality-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:58

Yeah, yeah

... that is so impossible for, like, an adult actor to mimic in any way.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:02

Yeah.

There's just, that's one of those things.

You can try to have the mannerisms of a teen.

You can try to talk like a teen.

You just can't have that lack of coordination like a teen.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:09

Yeah.

And Dev Patel is really embodying that for me in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:12

And how much of that is informed by you knowing what a stone cold fox Dev Patel turns into?

I mean, we've seen the before and afters-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:18

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:18

[laughs]

... of all these people, really.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:19

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:19

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:20

I think to a certain degree, and this, this is a common...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:24

Like, I was, I was sort of thinking across many teen shows, and I kinda came up with the same archetype.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:28

And I think it's just because those are the kinds of guys that I was friends with in high school, but your Sids.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:33

Like-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost22:34

...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:34

Mike Bailey, uh, who I think was 18.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:37

Um, but Sid, the sort of, like, nerdy friend.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:41

That, that rings really true to me-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost22:44

... to my, like, experience growing up.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:46

So yeah.

I also think, like, the fact that they are teenagers, I would have to think is a huge part of the pearl-clutching experience of this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:53

No, of course.

Because it's such a different thing when you are seeing 20-something actors, and this is a reason why they're often cast in those roles.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:59

Right.

I think there's two considerations.

One, productions of TV shows and even movies can be so long.

You don't wanna risk somebody has, like, a huge growth spurt or changes dramatically physically over the course-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:10

Mm-hmm

... of your show or movie.

But also just when you show people actual teenagers doing very sexual things in particular, some people just lose their minds.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:18

Absolutely.

And I'm not even saying they're wrong.

Particularly when you put yourself in the position of like, oh, an adult wrote a thing for this 15-year-old girl to do on screen, and now-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:27

Right

... she's, like, nude.

It gets, it gets weird very quickly.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:30

So let's talk about the writers' room.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:31

So this, this is, this is some of the ways in which we bump up against, uh, poor phrasing, Euphoria, is that, like, Sam Levinson-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost23:39

... an adult man, is, you know, writing all the episodes.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:43

And, uh, using his own life experience inside of, uh, addiction, but just sort of writing for all of these teenagers, especially these young women.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:52

And in these, uh, you know, if you watch this latest episode of Euphoria, like, incredibly sexual, uh, content.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:00

For Skins, which was created by a father-son team, which I think is quite interesting-

A family affair

Joanna RobinsonHost24:06

...

Joanna RobinsonHost24:06

they hi- the average age in the writers' room was 22 years old, and they hired literal teenagers.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:12

Daniel Kaluuya, who shows up as a character, Posh Kenneth, uh, was on the writing, uh-... team.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:19

He wrote, he was sort of like a teen consultant in the first season, and then wrote two of the episodes in the second season, series if you prefer.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:26

Um, this is an interview from him in 2008.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:28

Quote, "I'd always been on the writing team from series one, but on series one I was a contributor, which was when they bring young people in and they give their opinion on the scripts and what rang true and what didn't.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:37

I co-wrote an unseen," like a, an episode that didn't make it to air, "for series one, and when series two came along they offered me a chance to write an episode," and he actually wrote two.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:44

Um, and he's, he's never a main character on the show but he's very funny.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:48

You don't see him in the pilot but he is like a very funny, great presence on the show.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:52

Future Oscar winner, Daniel Kaluuya.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:54

But it's very rare, obviously, and, and I don't think it's been quite repeated in the same way, for you to not only hire young writers but to bring in teenage consultants.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:04

I remember Winnie Holzman, uh, the creator of My So-Called Life, uh, which was also, uh, very well-regarded for capturing the way that teens actually talked at the time, et cetera.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:16

She just went around and talked to teens-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost25:19

... and wrote down how they spoke and what they said and what their concerns were.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:22

She checked in with her teen cast and she would take stories from their lives and put it into the script and stuff like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:28

But, but everyone was always so dazzled by the wh- how did you do this? How did you capture the way that teens talk? So she's like, "Well, I talked to teens." And, uh [laughs]-

Okay.

[laughs] What, what a novel idea

Joanna RobinsonHost25:38

...

Joanna RobinsonHost25:38

Skins UK hired teens.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:40

Uh, you know, I have some questions about the labor laws about that, but, uh, you know, I guess if you're 18 that, that works, but.

Many, many questions about the laws and practices-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:48

Yeah

...

in the making of this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:49

What do you think?

I, I do think there's one of these things though where the idea of making your characters sound like teens-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:55

Mm-hmm

...

in theory is great, and you want that authenticity, and you want that sense that like this feels real.

The problem is, and I say this not to alienate any of our nonexistent teen listeners, 'cause let's be real about it, they're not listening to this podcast, you don't really wanna listen to teenagers talk for 10 hours as much as you think you do.

And so it's like it's c- it needs to be sculpted and shaped and stylized and narrativized in a way, but without losing the heart of what makes it feel authentic.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:19

Speak for yourself, Rob.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:20

Um.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:21

[laughs]

[laughs] I, I promise you, you do not.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:25

What's interesting about the, the teen hooky-ness of it all is like I was reading some articles, uh, from UK publications at the time about how Skins was received when it first aired.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:38

And not just that sort of pearl-clutching parents council quote that I read, read, but how they had captured their audience before they even premiered.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:47

And what they did is they utilized MySpace in a m- in a significant way.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:52

Uh, you know, in, in the same way that, you know, publishers are hoping BookTok will, you know, get you interested in their book before it comes out.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:59

Tales old as time.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:00

But MySpace being such a new way to connect directly to-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost27:04

... your demograph- your specific demographic-

And cheaply

Joanna RobinsonHost27:07

... that you're going for, right? And so, uh, this is a quote from a Guardian article.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:11

A Guardian article that's called Are You Gonna Roll Up for Skins? 'Cause skins is UK slang for rolling papers, right?

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:16

So that's the name of the show is like, is a, is a drug associated-

Did you, did you point at the screen when we got the title drop in this episode?

Joanna RobinsonHost27:22

I heard Ron Howard say, "Hey, that's the name of the show." [laughs]

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost27:25

Um, but, uh, this is what the Guardian article written in 2007 says.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:30

"The first episode is yet to be aired, but Channel 4 has already bombarded us with racy trailers of attractive, attractive adolescents copping off and puking up.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:38

I'm hooked and desperate to know if Skins will finally fill the eternal void in television schedules for a realistic representation of teenage life." And then, "A MySpace page for the show has generated huge hype online, which is essential if you're gonna attract and keep today's tech-savvy teens.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:52

Clever competitions have also done their bit for marketing machine, offering you, the viewer, the chance to get a song in a scene, style the cast, and design the logo." So they did a real like for us by a sort of a teen experience here.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:07

You get drugs in the first episode, naked adult neighbors-

Yep

Joanna RobinsonHost28:09

... we're hitting on teachers.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:11

Um, you know, uh-

We're trying to lose our virginity

Joanna RobinsonHost28:14

We're, we're doing our best.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:16

Um, I mean, and it worked.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:19

It was a hit.

It does work.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:20

It, it, it had a hu- it got terrible reviews.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:23

Uh, Euphoria's like, same.

Yeah.

Terrible reviews on the merits or on like the content pearl-clutching?

Joanna RobinsonHost28:30

On the merits.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:31

On the merits.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:31

And I like watching it, I think if I watched that first episode as an adult TV critic-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost28:39

...

Joanna RobinsonHost28:39

I would be like, "What, what is this? I'm not that interested."

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:42

You know? Like, I don't think the acting is tremendous in the first episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:45

You know, there's, there's just a lot, you know, like I, I could see...

Joanna RobinsonHost28:49

Hopefully I, I wouldn't do this, but I could see myself as like if I'm like, "I write for The Guardian,"

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost28:53

"... and I don't think this is up to snuff."

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost28:56

Like I, I could see that.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:57

But it was, you know, it got a huge audience.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:00

And it has only grown in estimation and become sort of this cult classic, uh, status.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:06

You know, as opposed when we'll talk about Friday Night Lights, Friday Night Lights was a critical darling from the jump.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:10

But not necessarily a hit with teenagers, I would say.

Well, speak for yourself.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:14

I mean, the Rob Mahoneys of the world were tuning in, but maybe not [laughs]

Maybe not-

Joanna RobinsonHost29:20

Not like other teens, Rob, you know?

Oh, wow.

Thank you so much.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:22

You know? So, um-

I, I would like to think, and I would say my overall impression from this episode is like there's something cooking here.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:28

Yeah.

This is not a finished formula.

You're right about the acting, like there's some really spotty moments.

It ha-

Joanna RobinsonHost29:33

It's wild because Nick Holt is so good.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:35

And I'm like, "This is maybe his worst acting ever." He's still so fun-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost29:39

... to watch.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:40

Yeah.

And, and like the charisma of it you buy.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:42

Yeah.

Like you buy that this guy could walk into a room and reel off some show tunes and like all of the girls are trying to get him to go to the party.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:48

100%.

That part is very believable.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:51

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, he's, he is reaching and grasping for control of this character.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:54

Yeah.

And he doesn't have it yet.

But I think that's what makes some of these teen shows so appealing is like it's not just the young characters, it's young performers-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:01

Yes

... and you're seeing them reckon with their own power.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:03

Yeah, and especially in retrospect when you see what they've later become.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:06

You're just sort of like this is so fun-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost30:07

... to watch them, uh, take their first sort of shaky steps.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:10

One question you had for me-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost30:12

... especially because you've only watched the first episode of Skins, is as we're grappling with Euphoria season three, the post-high school years-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost30:20

... of this show, how do these teen shows handle their cast growing older? And Friday Night LightsDid a similar version of this, but what Skins UK did, which was felt revolutionary at the time, is they cycled the cast out every two years.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:35

So-

Again, uh, the, the restraint of television in the UK.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:41

[laughs]

We, we just simply could not.

We- we're not capable of that.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:43

You meet in the first episode, and this is part of, I think, part of the extreme titillation of the first episode is, like, Tony's getting up to antics.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:52

His younger sister is getting up to something even more.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:56

She's been out all night, all of her makeup is smudged off.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:59

They have a routine of getting her back into the house.

That was incredible big brother-ing.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:03

It really was.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:04

He's 16.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:05

She's, like, 14, so that's the sort of-

Okay, maybe terrible big brother-ing.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:08

[laughs] That's more like-

Depends on your perspective

Joanna RobinsonHost31:09

... our, you know, loyal big brother-ing, right?

For sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:11

Uh, real, real, like, Ferris Bueller energy going on here.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:14

Um, but so Effy Stonem, his sister, is sort of the anchor of-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost31:19

...

Joanna RobinsonHost31:19

the second generation.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:20

So you've got Tony Stonem and his friends the first two seasons.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:23

Effy and her friends are the second generation.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:25

And then they did a third generation.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:27

And in the second generation, like, Kaya Scodelario as Effy Stonem is, you know, Kaya has gone on to, to do other things.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:34

Jack O'Connell is in the second generation.

Wild.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:37

You've got some, like, great, great people who popped in the second generation.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:40

Third generation didn't really hit as much, and so the final, like, seventh series of Skins is a series of specials checking in with Cassie, um, Effy, and Jack O'Connell's character, Cook.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:55

So, like, a, like, two-parters dedicated to those characters to sort of, like, how are they doing in adult life? And I think if those sort of, like, how is Cassie doing in her 20s, how is Effy doing in her 20s, if those had hit better than they did, Skins might have, you know, branched off-

Pivoted into a different thing

Joanna RobinsonHost32:12

... into that or something like that.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:14

There was an idea of maybe doing a Skins movie, but instead they did this sort of, like, wrap-up season.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost32:18

But that's as close as they get to sort of Euphoria series, uh, season three-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost32:21

... is this, like, s- season seven, let's check in with some popular characters-