‘Cape Fear’ Episode 8: Going Under

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[upbeat music]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:18

Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:20

I'm Joyner Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:22

Why are you shaking your head at me already?

I didn't do anything.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:25

Episode eight of Cape Fear.

It is.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:28

Is that what you want to shake your head at?

No. I'm very happy about this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:31

El tiempo de Dios es perfecto.

Wonderful.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:34

God's timing is perfect.

Always.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:36

Always.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:38

Written by Alan Page Arriaga, directed by my guy, Steven Williams.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:42

He's a Lost director, and he also directed the incredible episode of Watchmen, This Extraordinary Being, the nostalgia trip episode.

All fucking timer.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:50

Well, what...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:51

Steven Williams was, uh...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:53

And I, I've talked to him a couple times about his, his work on Lost, and he's like, "You know, they always call me for the, for the water episodes." So he d- he directed a lot of episodes where, like, people had to be, like, quite wet and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:03

So, like, the pool opener of this episode-

It's very exciting.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:06

... they're like, they're like, "Let's get Steven Williams in here.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:08

We got some pool stuff to do." So, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:12

Uh, did you like this episode of television, Rob?

I think so.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:14

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:15

[laughs]

Did you? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:16

I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:18

Um, where can folks email us their thoughts on this episode?

I'm so glad you asked.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:21

Yeah, you're welcome.

They can always email us at prestigetv@spotify.com.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:24

Mm-hmm.

But really you'd be doing us a solid-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:27

Mm-hmm

... and you'd make me personally happy if you are emailing us about Cape Fear the series, email us at thinkofababycarrot@gmail.com.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:34

Did you see the email we got from our listener, Emma?

No.

What did it say?

Joanna RobinsonHost2:37

Uh, so the text is this: "Saw this haunted scene while listening to ep one of coverage this morning and had to share," and it's a bag of baby carrots that has been, like, ripped open and, like, strewn on the concrete.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:49

So just, like [laughs]

It's upsetting.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:51

Just, like, pavement carrot.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:54

[laughs] And she's like, "Look, a horror movie-"

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost2:57

... "has happened," and she texted us about it.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:59

So she mailed us about it.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:00

Thank you so much.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:01

Before I get into some other emails, it has been several episodes since Faith was bludgeoned to death, and yet no mention.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:10

Everyone's in jail.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

Yet no one cares.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:13

The cops are quite busy in this episode, but nobody cares that Faith is dead.

I thought for sure this was gonna be the week we got the update, that as all the walls are closing in-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:23

Right

... they're gonna find Anna's prints because she handled-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:26

Her sticky, bloody prints [laughs]

... everything at the murder scene.

But no.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:30

No.

Did not happen.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:31

No, no, no.

Will it happen?

Joanna RobinsonHost3:32

Uh, Zach institutionalized.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:34

Tom in jail.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:35

Not only in jail, but Anna free to marinate in the consequences.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:40

So even if Max Katie knew that her, like, fingerprints, her sticky, bloody fingerprints were all over the crime scene-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost3:46

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:46

he doesn't want her in jail.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:48

He wants her out and just sort of, like-

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost3:50

... you know, getting pickled in the misery that is, uh, you know, the brine that he has created.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:55

[laughs]

I don't like that at all.

But even if he does want her out pickling-

Joanna RobinsonHost4:00

Mm

...

if her fingerprints are all over the place and the cops just show up and do the bare minimum of their job-

Joanna RobinsonHost4:06

Well-

... won't they find her?

Joanna RobinsonHost4:07

I don't know that I think much of the cops that we get to spend time with in this episode.

I'm, I feel mixed.

On the one hand, the cops are not always great.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:15

Yeah.

I would argue way too glib about the whole, "We just found a dismembered body in a pool," situation.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:19

Like, the glibbies.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:20

But this is a thing about Paul Schneider.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:23

He's the king of glib.

He really is.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:25

So, you know.

He is dialed in.

He can't dial it down.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:27

He's glibbing out with, uh, with it, you know? [laughs]

[laughs] Very much so.

But counterpoint.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:32

Yeah.

I would say to this, to this point, this series wants me to think one thing about Tom, and it is that he is the world's dumbest prosecutor.

Like, all of his maneuvers in attempting to hide the gun are among the stupidest things that have happened from any character on this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:46

I, I guess possibly, but I actually thought his, like, quick-thinking lie when he was in there and he's like, "Where's the other gun, Gun Tom?" He's like, "That pin's been misfiring since day one.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:55

I had sawed it off-"

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost4:56

... "a while ago."

After he fondled the gunpowder residue.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:00

[laughs]

Like-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:01

All right

... why?

Joanna RobinsonHost5:02

We just love to touch murder weapons here in the Boden household.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:05

Um, all right.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:06

So we got a bunch of emails from people.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:08

As we mentioned, we're sort of, like, a few episodes behind-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost5:11

...

Joanna RobinsonHost5:11

in our emails just because of the way we're recording these episodes.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:14

Um-

How do you feel about that, being untethered in time?

Joanna RobinsonHost5:19

I'm supportive of you-

I appreciate it

Joanna RobinsonHost5:21

... and your work-life balance.

Thank you.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:22

And that is why we're here.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:23

[laughs]

I can, I can feel the anxiety-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:25

[laughs]

... that we are not responding to emails promptly, and I just want to know I appreciate you.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:29

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:29

Donna wrote in to say, "The Hyundai debate.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:32

My two cents is that Anna drives it to demonstrate that she works for a non-profit."

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:36

"Poor form to drive up to visit a client in a, in prison in a flashy car."

That's a fair point.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:41

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:41

But also, you know, if you're like, "I've, I, I want the best lawyer in the world," don't... like, and that lawyer shows up in, like, a Jag, you're like, "Yeah, my lawyer is a Jag lawyer," you know what I mean?

See, here's the thing.

If my lawyer showed up in a Jag-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:53

Not Jag as in the TV show about- [laughs]

Oh, no.

I, I would support that.

If they show up in a Jag the car-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:59

Maybe Justice, yeah

yeahThis lawyer's very impractical.

They don't understand the maintenance costs that go into a Jag- Jaguar specifically.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:06

Jaguar.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:07

What's the most practical yet flashy, spendy car? Would you be like, "That person's sensible, yet also has a lot of cash to burn"?

I feel like it's gotta be a Toyota.

No free ads.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:15

Wow.

But I feel like it definitely is.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost6:17

I don't think you're understanding the prompt at all.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:18

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:19

Hailey wrote in to, uh, to do some eye color debate.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:24

Hailey's like, "I think Max Katie's eyes are decidedly green rather than blue.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:29

In an interview, Bartem said they were meant to look predatory like a panther, but I think their greenness and the green that they are all engulfed in throughout the whole show with the surrounding foliage represents Katie's imposing presence.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:40

The green/blue contrast was especially noticeable in the most recent episode," two episodes ago.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:44

"As Katie starts to infiltrate their family, we see more apparent green with the kids.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:47

Natalie totes a green bag-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost6:49

...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:49

Zach wears a green shirt, while Tom and Anna both wear bright blue shirts that match their own piercing blue eyes while they walk over to Katie's house to confront him." We have been tracking this sort of like green color coding and, and what exactly it means, but, um, I don't know that I'm willing to conclusively say what color-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:06

... his eyes are.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:07

Blue-green?

For one, it's hard to tell depending on how each scene is lit.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:11

Yeah, the color grading on this show is-

All over the place

Joanna RobinsonHost7:14

... bananas, yeah.

And I- I will say from my eye, I don't know that the con- the, the coloring around the Bowdens has been super consistent.

I think it's edged from blue to green back and forth kind of all over the place.

In this episode, we get a lot of green, for example.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:27

Right.

Natalie's very green, their house is obviously very green.

I wanna say there's like a, the blanket that Anna curls up with on the couch is like extremely, almost like lime green.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:36

Well, maybe that means like Max Katie's just taken over.

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:40

You know? It...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:41

What's the decor like at Melissa Ampersand Adam, the, uh, restaurant that he's trying to get off the ground?

I thought it was tasteful.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:46

Yeah?

Uh-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:47

Elegant?

Elegant, not overly showy-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:49

Okay

...

but, like, also kind of generic-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:51

Generic

... hospital lobby.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:52

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:53

I, I thought it was quite generic, like, uh, looking.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:56

Max Katie, I don't like your restaurant.

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:58

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:59

Brandon says, "Pertaining to the acid trip scene, I too agree this is the best Amy Adams has been all season.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:03

I think the whole cast did a great job, but Amy Adams has definitely tripped in her lifetime, more than once probably.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:08

She absolutely nailed it.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:09

Don't ask me how I know." I thought Amy Adams was really good in this episode.

Agreed.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:14

The, the sort of like drunk...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:15

Well, maybe it's just like, um, you know, under the influence of some sort of substance acting for maybe Adams.

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:21

'Cause I think the drunk and tearful, uh, scene with Natalie was really, really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:25

Genuinely, actually good.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:27

Like, from a better show, uh, uh, good.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:30

[laughs]

Some of the best Anna and Nat stuff we've-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:32

Yeah

... gotten all season, for sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:33

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:34

Uh, a number of our listeners wrote in to, uh, let us know if we didn't already that money means peanuts in Spanish.

I do love this.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:40

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:41

So did you know that already?

I did not.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:42

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:42

I, I forgot that, so.

Despite your impeccable pronunciation.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:46

That's, that's grade school Spanish, and those-

Still

Joanna RobinsonHost8:49

... and like little things like peanuts don't stay with you.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:51

[laughs] Also, probably not impeccable.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:54

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:55

Emily, who's worked as a nurse in the ER for the last 15 years, says yes, they do do some brain surgeries, uh, with the person awake conscious.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:03

The purpose is that the neurosurgeon can ensure that certain parts of the brain responsible for speech, language, processing, et cetera, remain intact while they do surgery.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:10

In fact, they have done brain surgery on people having them play a musical instrument to make sure that they don't do any damage to specific parts of their brain that control coordinated movement or other important neurological functions.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:21

Um, what if you can't play a musical instrument?

I think you just gotta plunk it out.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:27

Okay.

They'll give you a little keyboard.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:29

Oh, yeah.

You play Chopsticks and you keep it moving.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:31

I can, I can do Heart and Soul.

That's a thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:32

Yeah.

That's all you have to do.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:33

But if it's like a five-hour surgery, do I have to play Heart and Soul for like five hours?

They're not like, "Hey, can you bust out Fur Elise real quick? Like, Moonlight Sonata, you can handle, you can handle the melody."

Joanna RobinsonHost9:42

I love Moonlight Sonata.

Who doesn't? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost9:43

Well, it's probably quite a basic taste choice.

I do, I do find this very distressing, though.

I understand the human brain is endlessly complex.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:51

Yeah.

There are, by my estimation, countless neurons and dendrites and things, like, firing off up there.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:57

Dendrites?

I mean, I think it's a part of a neuron, so I think that might be redundant.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:01

Okay.

But still, there's a lot happening.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:03

Uh-huh.

I would still like to believe-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:05

Yeah

...

if somebody's gonna be cutting up up there-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:07

Yeah

...

they know-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:08

Snip and dendrites

... where to not snip.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:10

Yeah.

To let me continue to play the piano, which I don't do.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:14

Um, but the viola.

I did once upon a time.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:19

But-

Did you, did you hear about, like, the Mary Steenburgen musical story? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Joanna RobinsonHost10:24

No.

She underwent some kind of s- Mary Steenburgen, the legendary actor-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:27

Yeah

... underwent some kind of surgery.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:29

Oscar-winning actor.

Oscar-winning.

Oscar-winning in part because of the original songs she wrote, had no musical capability, underwent some kind of surgery, woke up with, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:38

What?

... the- the- the music in her head.

The ability to play music and write music.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:43

What?

This is a real thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:45

I mean, okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:47

That's a thing.

At least she, that's, b- by her telling, it's a real thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:49

I mean, but she has an acting Oscar.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:50

Is that-

She does, but she also, for Best Original Song, I believe.

Fur Elise was nominated.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:53

Oh, been nominated.

Yeah, sorry.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:54

Yeah, nominated.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:55

Okay, wow.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:56

Okay, wild.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:56

And then Ben wrote in to let us know about, uh, the popularity of Santeria, paganism, and Wicca in prison populations.

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:04

Ben has worked at the Books to Prisons program and, and mentioned, like... 'Cause I, you know, I, I knew that, like, Christianity or Islam or a number of other faiths, like, people are in prison, they're looking for, you know, they have questions, they need answers-

Of course

Joanna RobinsonHost11:16

...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:16

so they turn to faith and stuff like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:17

But, uh, this listener was saying that, like, of the books that he's been asked to give in this, in Books to Prison program that he's part of, dictionary, thesaurus, atlas, legal primer, followed by books on Wicca.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:28

So, uh, y- the witches are thriving in prison, and, and I love to hear it.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:31

But then, then also-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:33

... a lot of these practices of Satanism or Wicca or Santeria or, or whatever the case may be are not standard.

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:40

So, you know, if we're like, "Hey, what is this jailhouse Santeria that he's practicing here?"

Yeah.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost11:44

Like, that's sort of the point, I guess.

I ki- that one's interesting to me because, granted, my understanding of witchcraft and Wicca are pretty limited, but I always think of it as more of like-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:53

But you know about dendrites.

I know all about them.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:55

Mm-hmm.

Uh, I think of it as more of, like, a spiritual connection than a moral framework.

Is that misguided? Like, part of the appeal-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:03

Um, well-

... as I understand it for someone in prison is understanding their place in the universe, is maybe looking for redemption-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:08

But-

... through religion, things like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:09

But place in the universe, that's ab- absolutely-

Okay

Joanna RobinsonHost12:12

...

Joanna RobinsonHost12:12

Wicca.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:12

That, bec- it's more, like, naturalistic.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:15

But it is absolutely sort of, like...

Joanna RobinsonHost12:17

And, and there are divine powers inside of...

Joanna RobinsonHost12:19

I'm not a witch, but I-

You're witch-adjacent

Joanna RobinsonHost12:21

...

Joanna RobinsonHost12:21

I know many witches.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:23

And they have, they have, like, you know, depending on what kind of Wicca you practice, there are, like, gods that they believe in.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:28

So I think that sort of, like, divine order and sort of, like, certainly the cycles of nature and all of that sort of stuff I think-

That makes sense

Joanna RobinsonHost12:34

... uh, is part of all of that.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:35

A lot of our listeners wrote in to make sure that we knew that when Max, and, and we were perhaps both blinded by, uh, the guns on Max Hardy when he was cooking up pi- pig's ears.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:46

But, that the soundtrack to this cooking experiment was Steely Dan's song 19.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:53

So Steely Dan, uh, very much on our hearts and souls, uh, this year between Euphoria and this, and also 19, what a, what a track to pick.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:02

You called it.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:02

You were right.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:03

Romeo did attack someone.

It was-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:05

And it was Ana's shitty dad, Brandon.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:08

Is that who you wanted him to attack?

I don't know that I wanted him to attack.

I want better things for Romeo, period.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:12

Mm.

I want him to frolic in the wilderness somewhere and live a peaceful life away from Max.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:16

If the Bodens are successful in eradicating Max Hardy from their life-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost13:21

... do you want them to adopt Romeo?

No.

These people suck.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:25

Okay.

They're bad pet owners.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:27

[laughs]

See Manny/Peanut Butter.

Like, even, even Peanut Butter's like, "Get me up out of here."

Joanna RobinsonHost13:33

Um, all right.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:34

We open with the therapy hour with Zach and Dr. Patrick Fischler, MD.

Yeah, how'd it go?

Joanna RobinsonHost13:39

You stabbed your dad with a pair of gardening shears.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:41

So this is a nice confirmation for you.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:43

Uh, not, an, as, like, not that you were worried, but, like, it was not the aforementioned big-ass knife.

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:49

It was gardening shears.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:51

But that was Chekhov's gardening equipment that we saw outside of Max Hardy's house, uh, when the Bodens walked up.

That's a great point.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:57

There was, like, that wheelbarrow.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:59

And, and I was like, "What's that doing there? Is he burying bodies? I don't know." But, but, like, the gardening shears were right there for Zach to use to stab Tom in the back, so.

Very effective for stabbing.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:08

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:09

Therapy doesn't seem like it's going great.

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:11

We, we on this podcast are very pro-therapy.

Of course.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:14

Um, Zach doesn't seem to be taking to it very well.

Well, the good news is he's in it.

The bad news is-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:20

Yes

... he's only kind of in it, 'cause maybe AI Slop Sun is in it instead.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:25

Okay, you're back on possession theory.

I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:27

[laughs]

I really, I really don't know what to believe anymore.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:30

'Cause the final shot in this episode is him taking his meds, but he's seeing AI Slop Sun.

Well-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:35

You know

... let me ask you that before we even get that far.

Did he take those meds?

Joanna RobinsonHost14:38

Well, I don't know.

There's a bit, like, did he take them out of the cup and, like, hide them under something on the table?

Joanna RobinsonHost14:44

I feel like having seen many films and television shows set in mental institutions, we have to come up with a better system than the paper Dixie cup that we just walk away and leave the meds there and assume that the patient's gonna take them.

There are too many pillows and crevices-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:01

[laughs]

... on that couch, and there's too much stuff on the coffee table-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:04

Yeah

... frankly, to just be giving him these pills.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:06

To secrete a, a pill into, yeah.

You gotta at least wait and see if he took the pills or not.

That orderly or whatnot did not seem terribly concerned.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:13

This is a very Zach-light episode and I'm kind of-

It is

Joanna RobinsonHost15:15

... okay with that.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:16

I, I like Joe Anders, but, like, I'm kind of, like, his storyline isn't going anywhere interesting right now for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:21

Um, and, and by the end of this episode, like, we've got two more episodes to go if I'm counting correctly.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:26

And by the end of this episode, it's the Ana show.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:29

Like, it's-

I would think

Joanna RobinsonHost15:30

... everyone else is in an institution or another, and Ana's on the road, so.

Well, I think we're gonna see some inside those institutions, and I'm, I'm looking forward to that too.

But I agree.

Zach feels the most deprioritized at this point.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:41

Oh, you want the Neveah/Natalie shit fest?

Badly.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost15:44

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:45

[laughs]

So badly.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:47

Shit fest 2026.

I'm very much looking forward to that, like, full on cage fight-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:52

Yeah

... whenever it comes.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:53

Okay.

Uh, but yeah, like, I, I think Joe Anders has been pretty good all season.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:57

Mm-hmm.

He's being asked to do a lot here, and I, he's going for it.

I will say it is tough to swerve with the dual personality type acting and still stay on the road.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:08

Yeah.

And there are points at which the car is about to careen into the past.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:11

Okay.

And the writing is not helping.

Like, the, "You will start to feel like yourself again." Yeah, but what self? Oh, brother.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost16:19

Oh, boy.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:20

[laughs]

Come on.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:22

Um, all right.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:22

What about, what about dialogue-less sequences, like Natalie finding something in the pool?

Pretty good.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:30

Pretty great.

The, the leery, like, looking through the window as she's getting into the pool made me very uncomfortable.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:36

[laughs]

Mission accomplished.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:38

But at least she's wearing a swimsuit.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:40

One of our listeners or someone pointed out, like, that earlier when, when she, uh, "That's not water," when she goes to get [laughs] liquor at the liquor store, she is, she is laying out in the sun in denim overalls.

Overalls.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:51

Which is just, yeah, which is just not...

Joanna RobinsonHost16:53

But at least now she's in a swimsuit.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:55

But maybe she's never gonna go back in the water.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:57

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

I can't imagine she would.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:00

No, I think that swimming pool is donezo for them.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:03

Um-

She's, she's a little all over the place this episode, but I think it's a little understandable considering she found a dismembered corpse in her swimming pool.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:11

Can I, with full respect for Ray Rollins, a character we, we really enjoyed and want to see more of-

Yep

Joanna RobinsonHost17:18

... can I offer up a suggestion for what the card should be on the board for this?

Is it rest in pieces?

Joanna RobinsonHost17:24

No. [laughs]

What is it? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:28

Charcut-Ray.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:30

[laughs] You hate it?

Jo, what? [laughs] Where is the shark?

Joanna RobinsonHost17:37

No, like charcuterie, but it's Ray.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:39

Charcut-Ray.

Oh, Charcut-Ray.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:41

Yeah, Charcut-Ray.

I thought you were m- I thought you were making a double shark Ray pun.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:44

No.

I was like, "Where's the shark in this?"

Joanna RobinsonHost17:45

No.

Well, it's Charcut-Ray.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:47

It's, it's Charcut-Ray.

Charcut-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:50

A char- charcuterie board? Charcuterie board.

Char- yeah, you might be...

It's kind of splitting the difference on the consonant, honestly.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:55

[laughs]

I never thought about it this much, but you may be right.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charcuterie board.

Charcu- yeah, it is char.

It is more char.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:01

Charcut-Ray.

I'm coming around, but I-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:04

Okay, let's just-

I'm pun skeptical.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:06

I, I know you hate a pun.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:09

Let's just let it pickle for the rest of the night.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:11

[laughs]

Just let it float in the water and see where things come up.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:15

I like...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:15

This is the best use of the photo neg, uh, is, is Natalie splashing around-

It's horrifying

Joanna RobinsonHost18:19

...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:19

in the water.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:20

And, and it's all black and she's screaming.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:23

I thought that was fantastic.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:24

Steven Williams, get the water guy.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:26

Looks great.

It t- it really pays off.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, this whole sequence is horrifying.

I, I do have logistical questions.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:33

Okay, when did the carving happen?

Don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:36

Right.

I mean, clearly Max had the body close enough or went back for it at some point.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:41

Right.

I would...

Maybe this is more evidence it was in the trunk.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:43

I think, I think I'm pro it was in the trunk.

What if he had the cooler in the trunk and then it suppressed the smell?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:50

But then he would've had to have chopped it up on site.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:53

I don't feel like he had enough time to...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:55

Well, I don't know how long that drug, uh, nap lasted, but like-

It does take a while

Joanna RobinsonHost18:59

...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:59

if it were me having injected a peach, I would not feel confident about the dosage levels, right? Uh, and so like I would wanna get that body in the trunk as soon as possible, so I would not take the time to chop it up.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:12

But yes, the cooler might have helped with the smell.

I, I don't know that I needed to see this, but I do, I do find myself thinking of The Americans, and specifically how do you compress a body to fit into a suitcase that you can roll out the front door.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:25

Oh, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:26

It requires a lot of cracking of bones.

A lot of cracking.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But in this case it was more chop.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:30

Yeah.

So I, I can see how it all fits, but a cooler is famously like a flotational device.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:37

Ah.

So you have to really weigh that thing down to get it to all the way to the bottom of a pool.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:41

Well, how about a whole body in inside of it? Do you think that'll work?

I don't even think that's enough.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:44

Do you wish we got the outtakes of Max just like wading into the pool at night with the-

I kinda do.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost19:49

[laughs] Just-

I just wanna-

Joanna RobinsonHost19:49

And it's just like bobbing back up to the surface.

I mean, he's a full-time schemer.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:53

Uh-huh.

And I would love to see like him...

All the times he has injected peaches waiting for Natalie to get into his car, he's like, "God dammit-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:01

Yeah

... it's another fucking peach."

Joanna RobinsonHost20:01

Yeah, yeah.

Fruit is not cheap right now, you know?

Joanna RobinsonHost20:05

To, to zoom ahead, and it's so true, and it's stone fruit season, so we are very mindful of this.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:10

To zoom ahead to the, the shooting incident that happens at the end of this episode.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:15

I'm not a doctor, clearly, if anyone spent time with us covering The Pit.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:21

Do you feel like where Max Katie was like, "Right here, right here, right here," is like a specific part of the abdomen where there are no organs? Like shoot me right here.

He did seem aware.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:33

Yeah.

I mean, he pointed it and then the nurse was like, "Thank God you guys shot at exactly this spot because it dodged all your organs." At, at minimum she's-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:40

But Natalie is so dumb that he's like...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:42

I mean, obviously he's goading her into shooting him.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:45

And he's like, "Do it right here." If it were me-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost20:49

...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:49

I would do it anywhere else than the place that this guy... 'Cause I was w- I was trying to give Natalie some points in this episode.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:55

Right? When she's on the phone with him and he's like, he's like, "I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:59

Your parents would do anything to get me back." And she's like, "I don't believe you." And I was like-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost21:03

... "Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:03

Thank you, Natalie."

Finally.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:04

Like, thank you.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:05

Um, and then, you know, she hears what Anna has to say about her experience with Max, and she goes over there with the gun, like none of his spells, uh, you know, his charm spells are working on her.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:16

But then like he gets her to shoot him and I'm just like, "Natalie, come the fuck on."

She's a scared teenager.

I'm not trying to give her points, I'm just saying of all the people doing ridiculous things-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:27

Yeah

... on this show, the scared teenager to me is the most believable.

This whole situation though did result in, to me, what might be in the running for one of the funniest lines of the season, which is when after the shooting when Natalie is getting arrested and Anna's like-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:40

Oh

... "What happened, baby? What happened?"

Joanna RobinsonHost21:41

I missed.

I missed.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:43

I really wish this episode was just called I Missed.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:45

[laughs] Like-

Incredible

Joanna RobinsonHost21:47

...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:47

so good.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:48

I almost wish that was the button.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:50

I wish it had been, "I missed," cut to credits.

Cut to, yeah, let's get out of there.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:53

Like-

I don't need anything else.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:55

10 out of 10.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:56

I really agree.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:56

So good.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:57

Let's go back to earlier in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:58

Why go in chronological order? Natalie visiting Neveah in prison.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:02

They have this conversation.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:03

This is a very confusing conversation to me because like at the end Natalie is definitely provoking Neveah, and then Neveah sort of loses her shit on Natalie.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:11

And then Natalie looks like wounded, and I was like, "Did you not just goad her into that response? I'm, I'm so confused." But Neveah's jealous that Max took Natalie to Cape Fear River.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:24

Also-

And the card earlier this season that was like, "I will take you here someday-"

Joanna RobinsonHost22:28

Yeah

... was to her, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost22:29

Correct.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:30

To Neveah.

Yeah, so she-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:31

I mean, it was found at the maggot tomb-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost22:32

...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:32

so I can only assume, uh, that it was for her.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:36

Natalie and Neveah incest.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:37

Here's Neveah's read on this, "I didn't get you pregnant, did I?"

I think that's gotta go on the board.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost22:41

[laughs]

Ad- adjoined her to the incest card.

I didn't get you pregnant.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:46

I didn't get you pregnant, did I? Um-

Also, I...

Am I crazy or does prison really suit Neveah?

Joanna RobinsonHost22:52

I-

She is glowing.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:54

I agree.

There's some-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:55

The bangs are looking fresh.

There's something about it.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:57

Um, maybe it's 'cause she's not being actively dosed by like a psychotropic drug-

That probably helps

Joanna RobinsonHost23:01

... uh, in prison.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:02

Um, you know?

I don't know what it is.

There's just something about the lighting or the, like whatever makeup she's able to procure in there.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:09

She just looks less unhinged.

She looks alive.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:11

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:12

She looks proper hinged.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:13

Well, not entirely.

Until-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:15

Half hinged

...

the hinges come off.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:16

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:17

Do you think he cares about you? You're just a baby rat for him to play with before he kills it.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:21

I really wish she, Natalie, had gotten...

Joanna RobinsonHost23:22

Like if she's gonna provoke Neveah, I wish she had gotten like some actual useful information.

One thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:27

Yeah, one little item of like, "Oh, she said this."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:30

Uh, this will help us understand what his plan is, but no, it's just...

Joanna RobinsonHost23:33

Well, maybe it's just sort of m- more like fuel on the fire for eventual Shiv Fest 2026-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost23:39

... that is their meeting in prison, so yeah.

And I do think it's fuel on the fire in terms of coming forward to her parents about the gun, like coming clean about the whole situation.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:47

Sure.

Right? So many characters in this show, Anna's guilty of this, Tom is guilty of this.

Like they'll go barking up certain trees and they'll be rebuffed, and then they come and come back and do the thing they should've done in the first place.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:56

And they're like, "No, oh, now's the time-"

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost23:58

"... to share information with-"

Oh, the cops are here, let me tell you what's going on.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:00

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:00

Right now is the moment.

It's always the moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:02

Um, the scene with Noah and Anna when they're talking about Ray, and then Anna, like you brought up the cloud the other day.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:09

Uh, Anna remembers the cloud and she's like-

Thank goodness

Joanna RobinsonHost24:11

... "Let's find it." And not only that, later Anna geolocates the Galilee based on the, the iPhone data.