'Euphoria' Season 3, Episode 8: In God We Trust

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[upbeat music]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:18

Hello, welcome to a very special live episode of the Pressing TV Podcast.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:22

I'm Joyner Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:24

And the Euphoria finale has happened to us and to all of you, uh, here on this Sunday evening.

And to Snowflake.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:31

Oh, no, Snowflake's fine.

Well, his eyes were shielded.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:34

Um, listen, spoilers for the Euphoria finale.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:36

Let's just get that out of the way.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:38

Uh, and we're gonna break down the episode, not like sort of beat by beat, but give our more instant reaction.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:43

We are, uh, that's audio coming out of my own laptop.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:46

That's how you can tell we're live.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:48

Um, you can send us questions in the YouTube chat if you want to.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:53

Uh, those we'll, we will address those sort of at the end of-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost1:56

...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:56

this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:58

Rob, how are you feeling?

Not great.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:00

Hmm.

I thought this was a deeply strange-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:03

Hmm

... and mostly pretty bad finale-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:05

Right

... of a show that I quite like, and I, I really wanted to be here in the end in a place of some kind of peace, and I gotta say, I just am not.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:13

[laughs] There's no peace in the valley for Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:15

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:16

Um, this is the Pressing TV Podcast feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:19

We are covering Widow's Bay and Cape Fear, uh, coming up, and this is us wrapping up Euphoria, and I also feel pretty bad.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:27

Um, but I do wanna say this.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:30

I'm just gonna give you a, a roadmap of when I cried while watching this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:33

[laughs]

Please.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:34

When Rue reached her mom.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:36

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:38

When Ali found her.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:40

When Jules was painting Rue, um, a silent performance from Hunter Schafer, but nonetheless, an impactful one.

Art is speech.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:49

When Lexi was talking about Rue, I thought Maude Apatow was really good-

Agreed

Joanna RobinsonHost2:53

...

Joanna RobinsonHost2:53

in that moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:54

And then when Ali called her his daughter when he got to the homestead.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:58

Um, that really got me.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:59

So there, there is really good stuff inside of this finale, like, I think so.

I agree.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:05

I, I think there's some really, really effective, impactful stuff, and then there's just a lot around it that I think was-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

... much less successful.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:14

Um, what do you feel like the smartest thing this finale did?

I think the smartest thing is to make it so that Rue delivers Ali some kind of peace-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:23

Hmm

... rather than the other way around.

You know, we're setting up through all the seasons of Euphoria Rue trying to get her life in order, having, like, Ali's voice in her ear at various points, trying to set her straight, and then it's her guidance that brings Ali to the homestead and to get some kind of closure.

I actually found that to be really powerful.

I, how, all the elements of how we got there didn't quite work for me, but look, if we're gonna set up the Moses framing here-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:47

[laughs]

... of who gets delivered to the Promised Land and who doesn't, and Rue is Moses, at, at least we followed through on it.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:52

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:53

We'll, we'll circle back to some of the, the Moses imagery here, but, um, for me, it was anchoring us in Ali's emotional journey.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:00

So it's very similar.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:01

Like, the way they used Colman Domingo, not all of it-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost4:03

... 'cause I, I, in term- my next question is, like, what is the dumbest thing this finale did? And I think the amount of time we spent on the Nazi shootout at the beginning and then the strip club shootout at the end I think was a misfire for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:19

Um, at least in the script- strip club, we had Maddy there, um, who I care a lot about.

But just barely there.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:25

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:26

Not actively doing anything.

Not a thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:28

Um, and then Ali there, you know, so Colman Domingo being there-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost4:32

... is impactful to me, but I thought there was just so much distraction around what could've been a very strong emotional core of this episode, which is Colman Domingo.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:44

What did you think the dumbest thing this episode did was?

First of all, I, I do completely agree with you on Colman Domingo and his emotion and performance within this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:51

Yeah.

Some of what he's asked to do is, like, just give a PSA about fentanyl.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:56

Yeah.

And I think some of that messaging and tone, while well-intended, I wanna get into it.

I don't wanna be glib about this part of it 'cause you can tell this is a very emotional story-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:06

Mm-hmm

... that Sam Levinson and the people who make Euphoria are trying to convey, not least, not least of all because of, like, their proximity to this kind of death and this kind of overdose with Angus Cloud, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost5:16

Right.

Like, that is not something you just wanna gloss over.

That's not something you wanna joke about.

It is very strange, though, to take a show like Euphoria into this, like, almost direct-to-camera messaging about black and white and good and evil and just, like ...

I mean, hit- hitting everything so hard in the end I just found so odd.

So-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:35

We, we talked about this a little bit last week.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:38

Um, you know, when I said thatHearing some of the things that Ali said, I had literally heard come out of Sam Levinson's mouth.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:45

And once again, like in my notes I wrote, "This is Sam on his pulpit," right? Like, and he's preaching something.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:50

And again, I will say the same thing I said last week, which is like, I understand if he's like, "Here's the Euphoria potentially series finale, but certainly, you know, a season finale of a show that no longer stars Zendaya-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost6:02

... or Jacob Elordi.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:03

Um, I'm going to say what I need to say about fentanyl." I agree with you.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:09

Like, I understand the impulse to do it.

Completely.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:11

I don't know that I think it was artistically interesting at all, but like, I understand the very human impulse to be, "Here is my platform.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:19

I'm going to use it.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:20

I want to help people and instruct people." And I will say-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost6:24

... we, we, you know, we watched this sort of like behind-the-scenes, um, that they aired after the episode, and Sam Levinson talking about how, you know, he was an addict when he was younger.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:33

And, um, and when he was younger, fentanyl was not a thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:39

And he said, "If fentanyl had been on the market when I was younger, I think I would've died."

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:43

You know? And, and, um, there's another interview with Sam over on Esquire again this week with my pal Anthony Breznican where he is talking about, you know, "When I was an addict," or he's, you know, you're, you're perpetually an addict, but when, when he was using, that it wasn't one single dumb move and you're dumb as much as it is-

Now

Joanna RobinsonHost7:07

... now.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:08

And, uh, so again, I really understand that impulse to wanna talk about it.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:12

But I think it would've been artistically more interesting, as, as we're watching Jules make this painting, to sort of give it to us in an art form rather than in a s- just saying the thing form.

Exactly.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:24

You know?

I think it makes a lot of sense for this story, and we were primed all season to understand that Rue's story is probably not gonna end super well.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:32

Yeah.

That the stories of addicts a- is a story of struggle-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:35

Yeah

... and oftentimes of relapse, of falling back into bad habits and self-destructive spirals, of en- ending up in a book like Ali's book, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost7:43

Yeah.

Like, there are so many tragic ends here and so much tragic potential that that was probably what was going to happen to Rue.

So I, I, like that part of it is fine for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:52

I'm actually kind of glad that that's the ending.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:55

I, like, not that I'm glad that, that Rue died, but I think it's an honest ending-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost7:59

... for this character.

Well, especially for a character who spent so much time running and running and running-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:04

Yeah

... from every problem.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:05

Right.

And just to like basically run out of road, and it just, it f- finally caught up to her in the end.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:10

Right.

Like, that does feel completely honest to Rue and the story that Euphoria's been trying to tell.

I just think, yeah, all the messaging by the end, especially through Ali and his voice, is so much like not in the DNA of the show to begin with.

When, when you contrast season one to now, not only are they different shows tonally and structurally-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:26

Right

...

in terms of genre, it's like it really feels more than ever like they had to invent a whole nother show just to get to this endpoint, and I'm just, like, not buying it, and it's also not really what I signed up for.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:37

I do think that the Rue ending, I think there's an elegance in the design of this very tragic ending for this character where-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost8:46

...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:46

it, you know, Alamo intelligently.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:56

Um, with a classic sleight of hand, "I'll take one, you'll take one, we'll be fine, but I'll give you this bottle" sort of thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:03

And watching Rue look at that bottle and look at that bottle and knowing inevitably what she's going...

Joanna RobinsonHost9:11

Even if, even if-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost9:12

... like those of us watching it are worried that there is poison in that bottle-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost9:17

... knowing what Rue is inevitably going to do time and time again because she is, has an illness, is, you know, it's slow motion tragedy, you know? It's watching a bullet in slow time head towards someone, and I thought that was really effective.

Unquestionably.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:33

Yeah.

And those moments, and all of the Rue stuff in general, if you just wanna like chalk it up to runtime, is dwarfed by-

Joanna RobinsonHost9:40

Yes

...

Nazis and drug dealers-

Joanna RobinsonHost9:42

A- absolutely

... and revenge shootouts.

It's like having a scene staged in the name of Rue is not the same as Rue being there.

And the fact that we get to the end game of what Euphoria is, if this is the end of all Euphoria and Maddy is sitting on the floor, Rue is dead, Nate is dead, Cassie is not involved, Lexi is not involved, like what show are we watching?

Joanna RobinsonHost10:01

Right, and it's only by virtue of Ali's sort of emotional-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost10:05

... uh, movement inside of that scene.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:08

I, you know, I turned to you while we were watching it.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:10

It was like 30 minutes in and we were still doing, like, Nazi shootout stuff.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:16

And I was like, we could've spent any minute of this time with Jules, and we didn't.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:21

Before we started, I asked for last-minute predictions, and I asked you how many scenes you thought Jules was gonna be in, and you said 1.5, and I think you, if we count the ba- the, the bike flashback-

Yeah, that's the .5

Joanna RobinsonHost10:33

... you nailed it.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:34

Uh-

I fucking hate that I nailed it.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:36

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:36

And then-

I'm so mad about the Jules stuff

Joanna RobinsonHost10:38

... and then 45 minutes in, Rue is de- 45 minutes into this finale-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost10:42

... which is n- uh, you know, 90-plus minutes, uh, Rue is dead.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:46

I thought that was an interesting choice to make.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:48

Like, when, when do you, knowing that, I have to imagine that, uh-

They ran out of shooting days with Zendaya?

Joanna RobinsonHost10:54

I have to imagine that Jacob Elordi and Zendaya both said, "Okay, we'll come back for this season."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:01

But much like Harrison Ford playing Han Solo again, they're like, "You gotta kill us so there's no chance you can try to ask us come, to come back for a season four-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost11:12

...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:12

if a season four happens." And in that Esquire article, Sam Levinson does say never say never about a season four.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:18

But so if, uh, if Zendaya's like, "You gotta kill me-"

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost11:22

... then the math you're doing at home if you're Sam Levinson and his team is how early in this finale can we kill Rue-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:32

... and still have an interesting story to tell.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:35

How do you feel like they executed it?

Not well.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:37

Yeah.

I think the stuff involving Rue, as we've mentioned, mostly worked for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:40

Yeah, yeah.

Everything else did not, including, like if, if it's not gonna be about Rue, so much of the season's been about Cassie and Cassie and Maddy, and they're barely in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:49

episode.Um, let's talk about the Cassie ending really quickly.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:53

Um, 'cause I actually quite liked it artistically-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost11:57

...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:57

even if I-

So what worked for you?

Joanna RobinsonHost11:59

Um, okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:00

I thought, I did think the ring light halo-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost12:03

... around her was funny and fun-

Agreed

Joanna RobinsonHost12:05

... and I liked it.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:07

Um, in the diner scene between Maddy and Cassie, like, I'm not sure I buy this whole, like, they're the loves of each other's lives, their relationship is the love story of the season-

Not so much

Joanna RobinsonHost12:16

... like, any of that.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:17

I don't really buy it.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:19

But the choice to have one of my favorite songs, Roy Orbison's In Dreams, playing while she's slathering French toast in syrup and thinking about-

For the record, I think that's, like, a normal amount of syrup.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:33

You and I-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost12:34

... like, wildly differ on syrup.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:35

I think it's disgusting.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:36

But, like-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost12:37

...

Joanna RobinsonHost12:37

the, the foley on the syrup was meant to make it sound-

Of course

Joanna RobinsonHost12:40

... like, too sickly, too, too sticky.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:43

Like, incorrect.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:45

So, like, this, this, like, sticky sweet, like, idea she had of what her future would be.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:50

And then we wind up this floating camera out of the house, and it looks like a dollhouse.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:56

And she looks like a doll trapped in a dollhouse.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:59

Artistically-

Definitely works

Joanna RobinsonHost13:01

...

Joanna RobinsonHost13:01

I thought that was pretty interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:04

On the behind the, uh, in the behind the episode video, when Maude Apatow, uh, is talking about that scene between Lexi and Cassie and talking about how they have a failure to emotionally connect-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost13:15

... did that, like, dramatically work for you? Does wa- do- watching two people fail to emotionally connect-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost13:21

... work for you?

This is like when you're trying to show characters on screen that don't have chemistry, and it's, like, part of the plot that they don't have chemistry.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:27

Right.

Uh, like, I'm talking about you materialists, for example.

It's like, it's, it's-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:31

[laughs]

... it's a tough hang sometimes.

And so the scene-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:33

Materialist catching strays on a, on a-

Yeah.

I mean, the-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:36

...

Joanna RobinsonHost13:36

Euphoria Sunday

...

the scene goes on and on of these two people who just are not on the same wavelength whatsoever.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:42

Yeah.

We've known that since season one.

This is not a revelation.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:45

Right.

And so the idea that at the end of their journeys of season three, Lexi is trying to honestly reach out and communicate something with Cassie about Rue and about loss and about-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:53

Yeah

... reading the Bible, and, like, reaching for a sense of purpose and a way to continue on just in life.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:58

Right.

And Cassie, I think, one, probably isn't equipped to handle all that, period.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:03

Right.

And then two, in this moment is putting on, like, stone-faced smile, I swear everything is okay, like, facade on facade on facade.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:10

Nate might come back.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:11

Nate might come back at some point.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:12

I'm cleaning this dildo.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:13

It's fine.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost14:14

It's fine.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:14

It's fine.

And so, like, it, it kinda works within the structure of those characters, but is it a good scene to watch? Is it an engaging scene to watch? Does it feel like we're paying off a season or three seasons worth of character? I can't say I felt that way.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:27

I think it's a real failure for Lexi.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:29

And this season has been a failure for Lexi because, like, the whole LA Nights Sharon Stone story, like, what...

Joanna RobinsonHost14:35

It felt like we were spinning our wheels.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:37

Similarly with Jules and her, like, sugar daddy, that we were just, and-

No

Joanna RobinsonHost14:41

... and Nate and the housing development.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:42

Like, all of those stories just felt like a reason to check in on these characters, but not an actual story with resolution for them.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:49

I found Hunter Schafer's performance as Jules, and I thought the painting was, like, very poignant, and Hunter Schafer talked about the act of creating that painting herself as an artist.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:01

But, um, but she's just still there with her sugar daddy, and I'm like-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:06

... what was w- her emotional journey in this episode is just her grief about Rue, and that is important to me, but I don't know what it tells me about where we're leaving her-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:16

... and, and what her life, what is her decision going forward.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:19

Is she on a healthy track? Is she on an unhealthy track? I'm not sure-

I genuinely don't know who she is-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:24

I know how to interpret that

... at this-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:25

Yeah

... point in life.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:26

Right.

I- we barely spend any time with her, and I've found it endlessly frustrating throughout the season-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:31

Yeah

... hoping that, okay, maybe if something dramatic happens in the finale or the penultimate episode-

Joanna RobinsonHost15:36

Right

... we'll get to spend more time with Jules, and we just never did.

And I, I feel like it's so damning that if you take out every single Jules scene of this season, it changes nothing, not a single plot point, not a single bit of character.

Like, she means nothing to anyone in season three of Euphoria, and that's heartbreaking for one of the core characters of the story.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:53

Very similar to...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:54

I mean, I would say the same thing for Lexi, other than, like, circumstances-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost15:58

...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:58

the plot, you know, moves some things in certain directions.

She's also, like, getting Cassie on TV and involved in that process.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:03

But yeah, Jules, you know, and Nate is again a plot device more than-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost16:07

... a character this season.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:09

And so yeah, the, it, the decision that Sam Levinson made to dedicate so much of this season to the Alamo versus the Nazis storyline is boggling-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost16:24

... to me.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:24

When you have incredible actors playing incredible characters that we have a deep emotional investment in, it is extremely strange for us to spend so much time on, I don't give a shit that Laurie jumped off a building at all.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:36

Sorry, I don't.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:37

Like, I don't-

I, I really have no connection to it.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:39

I don't give a single shit about what-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost16:41

... anything that happens to any of the Nazis.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:43

Faye lives? Great.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:44

Like, uh, sh- does she deserve to? I don't know who deserves.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:46

But, like, I, I just, I am just shocked and surprised that, that we wound up here.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:53

I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:53

I kept waiting for the season to realize it was dwelling in the wrong corners.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:57

You know? So.

I think the Laurie stuff in this episode is a great example of that-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:00

Yeah

... where it's like technically, okay, we're building tension.

We're getting this, like, rising, mounting confrontation between the DEA and, and Alamo's gang and Laurie's gang all in one place.

Like, I'm kinda feeling like just the, the physical exhilaration of a set piece, but I don't care about any of it.

And it-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:16

Yeah

... and it feels so far afield of all the stuff I do care about.

It's like a thrash metal concert was going on, and they stopped, and they're like, "Let's do a clarinet solo in the middle of this for absolutely no reason." I don't know why this is happening.

Like, I don't know, I don't know what I'm meant to feel when Laurie kills herself other than I guess a sense of, like, almost she didn't have to do that because they don't actually have any drugs there.

They just have fake drugs and no money.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:40

Just laxatives.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:41

So-

Just a bunch of laxatives

Joanna RobinsonHost17:42

... on your hit list this evening is the film materialists and clarinet music?

Only those at thrash metal shows.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:50

But you're a symphony guy.

[laughs] Well, it, the opposite applies.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:52

It's how you got your famous posture.

If you stop a symphony-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:55

[laughs]

... for a thrash metal guitar solo, the same concept applies.

I just don't understand what one has to do with the other.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:00

Put some respect on the woodwind.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost18:02

That's all I have to say about that.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:04

Um, on the-

the-Can I ask you a Jules question-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:08

Oh

... before I move on from Jules, though?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:10

Please.

'Cause I fear this is the last we're ever gonna speak-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:12

I would love-

... of Jules

Joanna RobinsonHost18:12

... to talk about Jules.

Who do you think had more screen time in this episode or in the season?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:17

Kitty's BBL?

That's literally what I was gonna ask.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:20

[laughs]

Kitty's BBL or Jules?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:21

I think it was the BBL.

Kitty's BBL gets, like, a walk and talk.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:25

Yeah.

Some close-ups.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:26

Yeah.

Legit reaction shots.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:27

Yeah.

I just don't even know what to do.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost18:30

What are we doing here? Absolutely.

Come on.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:32

Um, the last thing I wanna...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:34

On, on the Nazi shootout, another baffling moment for me, a, a, a- something that got-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost18:38

... a genuine laugh from us in the room-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost18:40

... was when the DEA agent said, "I can't wait to nail these motherfuckers to the cross."

[laughs] I at least...

That's Euphoria being cute, and I'm okay with Euphoria being cute.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:48

But what was with the Nazi who's not Wayne?

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:52

With the long s- the, like-

That's Nazi number three

Joanna RobinsonHost18:54

...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:55

Jesus-looking Nazi.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:56

Like, who had, like, a bloody sort of crown and, like...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:01

I was like, are we doing Jesus imagery for a Nazi? Is that what we're doing here in this moment?

Why wouldn't you?

Joanna RobinsonHost19:05

Okay, let's talk about the other, uh, major religious, uh, sort of figure, the Moses of it all.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:11

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:13

The theory that people had in comparing Rue to Moses is that Rue would somehow lead the girls out of the strip club-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost19:22

... to the Promised Land, but as it says in the Bible, Moses does not get to go to the Promised Land.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:27

Would you say by the transitive property-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost19:31

...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:32

in Ali sort of eliminating Alamo and freeing whatever girls want to leave if they want to leave-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:37

...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:37

Kitty takes her BBL on the road it seems like, uh, that kind of Rue did that to a certain degree?

So the let my people go is to let the strippers-

Joanna RobinsonHost19:46

The BBL go

... out of the silver s-

Joanna RobinsonHost19:47

Yeah

... silver slipper?

Joanna RobinsonHost19:48

Yeah.

No, I don't.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost19:50

Okay.

I don't think that works.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:53

Um-

Not to no-but you, but absolutely not.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:55

Uh, it's not the rule of podcasting.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:57

Um, so the, the address on the homestead-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost20:01

... is Jerusalem Road 613-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost20:03

... which a number of our listeners wrote in, you know, we were trying to make it, like, a John 3:16 thing, and they're like, well, first of all, 613 or 613 is a very important site of the Jewish faith.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:15

But I think our listener Steven really nailed it because he said Exodus 6:13 is when God commanded Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:23

This is, and I quote, why not quote the Bible here-

Let's do it

Joanna RobinsonHost20:26

... at the Euphoria finale?

The new Bible or the old one?

Joanna RobinsonHost20:28

Um, it's, uh, definitely Michael York's Bible.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:31

Um, "And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, and gave them a charge unto the children of Israel, and unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, to bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt." So the story of Moses, uh, is that he angers God in, in a complicated rock and water-based, uh, event.

As one does.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:51

And [laughs] and does not get to go to the Promised Land.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:53

And it is this concept that Mallory and I talk about all the time on House of R when we talk about our Bible, which is Lord of the Rings-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost20:59

...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:59

when Frodo said, "I save The Shire, but not for me."

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:03

Right? So Moses leads the people out to the Promised Land, but not for him.

So Frodo is Rue?

Joanna RobinsonHost21:11

And Jesus-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost21:12

... and Moses-

Wow

Joanna RobinsonHost21:12

... and all, and all things at once.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:14

But, like, is this interesting to you? Does, does the Moses...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:19

Like, did Rue make a Moses-level error-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost21:25

...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:25

in taking the fentanyl? Is that what we're meant to think? Or are we stretching this to the breaking point and we should just move on?

I think we are stretching it to the breaking point, but as we discussed previously, I think that is part of the text of the show-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:37

Mm

... is the idea that, to be honest, it's one of the things that we do best as humans, which is interpret sometimes seemingly random events and assign them a ton of meaning.

Are we guilty of that on the show? Who knows.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:46

Is Rue the cow? [laughs]

[laughs] The conversation we had about whether Rue was reincarnated as a calf-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:52

I-

I'm, I'm not so convinced that's not what the show is-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:54

I-

... posturing

Joanna RobinsonHost21:55

... definitely think that's what the show is intimating.

Good Lord.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:58

That Dalia's, uh, calf is Rue.

I was legitimately waiting for the little girl to say, "And we named her Ruby."

Joanna RobinsonHost22:05

We named her Ruby.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:06

[laughs]

And it just never came.

That's restraint.

We did it.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:09

Um, episode one, when Rue wakes up in the homestead and the little girl goes, "You want a cup of milk?" "Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:15

Thank you.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:15

That's the best fucking milk I've ever had.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:18

It's Dalia's.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:19

Thank you, Dalia.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:20

Land of milk and honey."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:22

I think Rue's the cow.

[sighs]

Joanna RobinsonHost22:24

[laughs] It's a miracle cow.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:27

It's a few months old.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:29

It's been a few months since Rue died.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:31

I think Rue is the cow.

We spent an hour on Nazis, and Rue is the cow.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:35

[laughs] Euphoria, colon [laughs]

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost22:37

An hour on Nazis, and Rue is the cow.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:39

Um, that's where we wound up here.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:42

Uh, I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:43

How did, how did the homestead finale work for you? How did Ali showing up there work for you?

Uh, I like the structure of it.

I like the emotion of it.

I like Coleman Domingo's performance, as always.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:52

Mm-hmm.

Do we need Zendaya superimposed back in as a vision-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:57

Mm

... at the end? Not exactly, but I like enough of, like, you know, the shot of, for example, like, the table being set with Ali outside, out the window in the background.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:05

I heard you make a, like-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost23:07

... a John Ford noise as you were typing [laughs] on your computer.

I, I don't even wanna know what that noise is, but I'm probably guilty of it.

And so as usual, like, cinematically-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:16

Mm-hmm

...

I like a lot of what Euphoria is doing.

Emotionally, I like some of what it's doing.

And in terms of the larger structure of the story it's trying to tell, I am dumbfounded.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:25

Speaking of classic Westerns-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost23:28

... uh, when we're on the trip to Mexico-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost23:30

... uh, we see a number of movies, uh, throughout this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:34

Lot ...

Joanna RobinsonHost23:35

Everyone likes to watch old movies in the world of Euphoria.

Everyone's watching old movies on Vizio TVs-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:40

Yeah

... and pouring big old glasses of Coca-Cola.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:42

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:42

Well, we'll talk about the Coca-Cola for sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:44

That's not how you pour Coca-Cola-

Please

Joanna RobinsonHost23:47

... at all.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:48

Anyway, uh, down in, down Mexico way-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost23:52

... they're watching the, the film Shane, uh, one of the most famous, uh, gunslinger movies of all time.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:59

Uh, you may know it through the movie Logan, uh, which liberally [laughs] cites Shane-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost24:03

...

Joanna RobinsonHost24:03

if that's your point of reference.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:05

Um, but the, the scene we get is where the young boy, Jody I think, is asking Shane to teach him how to shoot, right?

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:12

And right after- like, pretty soon after that, Shane has his most famous monologue about what a gun is, and he says, "A gun is a tool, no better or worse than any other tool, an ax, a shovel, or anything.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:23

A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:25

Remember that.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:26

We'd all be better off if there wasn't a single gun in this valley, including yours." You're thinking about Logan right now.

I mean-

Joanna RobinsonHost24:31

No more guns in the valley

...

when am I not thinking about Logan?

Joanna RobinsonHost24:33

Logan?Peace in the valley.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:35

Um, and then the end of, at the end of Shane, it's very similar to Frodo and Moses [laughs].

Joanna RobinsonHost24:44

Shane brings peace to the valley.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:45

Doesn't he-

This is a more Hobbit forward podcast than I was expecting, but that's on me.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:48

Have you met me?

That's what I'm saying.

That's my fault.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:51

But Shane rides off sort of slumped in his saddle-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost24:54

... and you can decide for yourself whether or not he made it out alive.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:57

But basically he saves the valley, but not for himself.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:00

Um, so this idea of Ali being there, I really like your interpretation of like it's not about getting the sex workers out of, of the club, it's about maybe rescuing Ali from-

That's what it feels like to me

Joanna RobinsonHost25:15

...

Joanna RobinsonHost25:15

this sort of hamster wheel he was on-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost25:18

... of like s- you know, trying to prostate h- prostrate himself in front of, throw his body in front of all of these young people who are using, and it failing again and again and again and again.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:31

So is there something better he can do? Um, I don't know if better he can do is shooting up a strip club, but is better he can do find some peace for himself at the end of the day?

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:42

What do you think?

That feels in, in many cases like the healthiest and most hopeful outcome for any character on this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:48

Mm-hmm.

The idea that they could have a sense of closure, of moving on.

And it's one thing you and I have been talking about throughout this season as far as like will Rue get that sort of opportunity? Clearly that wasn't in the cards for her.

But it could be for Ali, someone who has already come to terms with so much more of who he is and what he has done and what he's capable of, and like the de- deepest, darkest parts of himself, and tried to reconcile that out of other people unsuccessfully time and time again.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:12

Levinson and his team have said that they were hoping this would be an uplifting finale.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:17

Does it feel uplifting to you? That there is hope alongside an hour of Nazis and a BBL.

Well, let's talk about who there would be hope for, because Rue is dead.

Nate is dead.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:30

But-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost26:32

... has Rue found peace? When Ali-

If-

Joanna RobinsonHost26:35

... finds her on the couch and he's like-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost26:37

... "May God give her peace," you know? And, and-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost26:38

...

Joanna RobinsonHost26:38

the way that her death is depicted, there is the gasping sounds of her dying that is so horrifying and hard for us to watch, but in those moments inside of her own interior life-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost26:53

... she is united with her mother.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:56

That there is peace there for her.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:58

Does that, uh, work for you? Or you're like, "No, thank you."

I found that moment to be very affecting-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:04

Mm

... and really striking.

Yeah, like reaching into the dark for her mother, for salvation, for hope, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:10

Mm-hmm

... on Ali's, on Ali's couch of all places.

Like that part did work.

But if, if the symbol of hope is in fentanyl overdose, that doesn't feel consistent with what the rest of the episode is saying.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:21

I don't f- I don't think the symbol of hope is fentanyl overdose-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost27:25

...

Joanna RobinsonHost27:25

but the symbol of hope is finding peace for some people-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost27:30

...

Joanna RobinsonHost27:30

in their own way.

And th- look, the show is clearly concerned with that.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:33

Mm-hmm.

It's, it's clearly concerned with the idea of like how do you move on from tragic things? Like what Lexi says about reading the Bible, I'm sure you could superimpose about a lot of the people who are working on the show and have now suffered this kind of tragic loss both within the show and just elsewhere in their lives.

And like how do you pick up the pieces? How do you keep putting one foot in front of the other? It's part of the text of the show.

I'm just like, I feel the whiplash of everything Euphoria has been to get to this point.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:58

Oh, it's a completely different show, as you said.

It's a completely different show.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:00

Yeah.

But it does itself no favors in this finale that it-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:03

Oh, reminding us

... it's like, "Here's a flashback from season one."

Joanna RobinsonHost28:06

Yeah.

Even Jules' painting is like very much like j- like a Rue on the bed kind of like strewn about-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:12

100%

...

in one of these like hazy moments.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:14

Yeah.

And it's like if you just keep bringing us back to that place in the way that finales often do-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:19

Often do, yeah

... you're begging a comparison that does not do this season any favors, and I think only serves to contrast how much this show does not pay off that show.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:27

Um, our listener Sydney emailed us to mattysnumberoneboy@gmail.com.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:32

Um, the title of the email is Distracted by the Allure of Parkour.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost28:37

And Sydney wrote, "Just finished the finale-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost28:39

... and can't believe I didn't notice Rue's red overdose sweatshirt and the obvious hallucination because I was too distracted by the possibility of Fezco parkouring out of jail." Um, I was really gla- uh, glad is not the word, but to have the hoodie back-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost28:52

... uh, inside of this episode felt important.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:54

The, the visions that we see of her father.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:57

And I thought, you know, Cassie bringing up her father, like-

Agreed

Joanna RobinsonHost29:01

... those connective tissue moments back to the first season, um, I thought were, I don't know, they worked on me.

That was maybe the most human moment we've had from Cassie in a long time.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:10

Yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:11

Um, our listener Trish wrote in to say, "Looks like Bishop is Maddy's number one boy, actually."

I guess.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:18

So here's my question.

Well, Snowflake.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:20

Here's my question for you.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:22

Does Bishop's turn here make sense? Was it tipped for us in any way before this episode? Um, you know, earlier in the episode, a few minutes before-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost29:35

...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:35

he decides to turn on Alamo, who he has been nothing but a loyal foot soldier to I think all season-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost29:40

...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:40

Maddy says, "You know what I would find surprising? A little grace in this world." And I was wondering if in that moment he was like, "I can provide that for you somehow."

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:50

Um, I think it was like pretty clear for people who know the visual language of cinema that like he handed him an empty gun-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost29:57

... like all of that sort of stuff.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:59

Um-

I d- I did like the splashing of the, the bullets into the blood-soaked carpet.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:05

I, I didn't.

I liked it as a ...

I mean, he's not, he's not doing it for us, he's doing it for Ali.

Like, "Please don't shoot me.

I took the bullets-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:11

Oh, I helped him

... out of the gun."

Joanna RobinsonHost30:12

Sure, yeah.

But I, I just like the visual of it.

And specifically, again, like that sinking sensation of the-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:18

Yeah

... bullets into this like I can only imagine what fluids are in that carpet-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:22

[laughs]

... uh, other than the blood of this moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:23

Yeah.

But I did enjoy it.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:25

But, you know, some, some, uh, viewers pointed out that when he's in the car with Maddy and Snowflake-