Makers Series: Jen MacLean on Betting a Company on Human Creativity [016]

**Episode summary** Jen MacLean started as a teenage playtester at Microsoft, rose through AOL, Comcast, Amazon, and Microsoft's Xbox, and is now co-founder and CEO of Dragon Snack Games. Ron has known her for more than 25 years, since they met at Columbia Business School. He is also a friends and family investor and angel advisor to Dragon Snack. Jen walks through the state of the games industry: North American layoffs after the COVID investment boom, why players in the West recoil from AI while players in Asia embrace it, and what Grand Theft Auto VI, which Jen estimates could earn $7 to $15 billion in its first week, says about the business. The second half is about building. Jen describes the 2024 conversations that pushed her to leave Xbox, including Ron's question about a line on a resume versus a line in a eulogy. She explains why she and her co-founders chose to hire only when it hurt and to assume no more money was coming. When a $10 million budget shrank to two to three million, they cut scope and told the team the truth. She also covers keeping a remote-first team of eight connected, why humans must stay in the loop with AI, and Farhaven, the cooperative steampunk fantasy game where nobody competes and everything you do benefits the people you play with. Dragon Snack's Kickstarter launched October 1, and the game is slated for release in Q2 2027. Full Podcast available on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. Ron Boire and The Upland Group Website: https://www.ronboire.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RonBoire LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronboire/ Jen MacLean and Dragon Snacks Games LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenmaclean1/ Dragon Snacks Games: https://www.dragonsnacksgames.com/ Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dragonsnacksgames/farhaven-not-an-mmo-a-friendmo Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/4922250/Farhaven/