'IGOR' by Tyler The Creator | LAST SONG STANDING (E4)

[upbeat music] Welcome, everyone, to Last Song Standing.

I'm Cole Cuchna.

Charles HolmesHost0:14

And I'm Charles Holmes, and in this, this season of Last Song Standing, we're working our way through Tyler, the Creator's entire catalog in order to crown his greatest song of all time, AKA the last song standing.

Last episode, we revisited Flower Boy, and today we are tackling what many believe is Tyler's best album-

Charles HolmesHost0:34

Hell yeah

... 2019's IGOR.

You should make my earth quake.

Oh, you should make my earth quake.

Are we still friends? Can we be friends? I can make your earth quake.

Whoa.

I met you, I met you, I met you.

No way.

My love's gone.

My love's gone.

Charles HolmesHost0:56

Cole, bro, we're here.

Charles HolmesHost0:58

It's...

Charles HolmesHost0:59

We've been on a journey.

Charles HolmesHost1:01

Our friendship has been tested.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost1:03

It is very funny that I feel like [laughs] we both lo- we both love the opposite Tyler albums.

Thinking back to last episode, I feel like you...

This is, like, the n- the reformed Charles is really showing itself.

Charles HolmesHost1:17

[laughs]

Because I feel like a few years ago you would've came in here just shitting on Flower Boy.

Charles HolmesHost1:21

[laughs]

I know that it, there's a part of you that wanted to shit on Flower Boy so bad, but the new accepting, meeting people where they're at Charles is-

Charles HolmesHost1:31

Come on

... very much showing itself.

And last episode I'm proud of you.

You showed a lot of maturity.

Charles HolmesHost1:36

That was, that was my Cherry Bomb episode, where I'm like, "Yeah, Cherry Bomb is great," and you're like, "Well, you know, it's no Flower Boy." [laughs]

[laughs] You're learning from me, I'm learning from you.

Charles HolmesHost1:46

Come on.

I think, I feel like that's just-

Charles HolmesHost1:47

That, that is what friendship is all about.

Charles HolmesHost1:49

So before we get into it, do we wanna go over where we stand this season with our, with our picks?

I'm feeling good about the picks that we're rounding out into I feel like the prime of Tyler's discography, but let's go over our picks so far.

All right.

So f- I've got Bastard title track, She, Answer, Cherry Bomb title track, and Garden Shed.

I've...

I'll just say I love Garden Shed.

I'm, I maybe have slight regret not going 911, but I still think Garden Shed was-

Charles HolmesHost2:19

Garden Shed is-

The one, right.

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost2:21

Don't have regrets.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost2:22

You made the right choice.

Charles HolmesHost2:24

Are you, are you...

Charles HolmesHost2:25

Are these personal regrets, or are these regrets that you feel like the fan base is like-

I think that's kinda it.

Charles HolmesHost2:32

No. No.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost2:33

If we've learned anything, the fans, we love them, keep listening, they can lead you astray.

Charles HolmesHost2:38

You know what I'm saying?

It's true.

Charles HolmesHost2:39

We have to honor the exercise, okay?

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost2:42

If an alien comes to earth, what is the song that best represents Tyler?

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost2:46

All right.

Charles HolmesHost2:47

For my choices, dog, this list is great.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost2:50

French, Yonkers, Bimmer, Buffalo, Who Dat Boy.

Charles HolmesHost2:53

Banger, banger, banger, banger, banger.

Charles HolmesHost2:55

[laughs]

They're all good songs.

I'll just...

Li- like we said last episode, it's just a little one-note.

I would love, I would like to see some variety out of you today maybe.

Do you think that's gonna happen?

Charles HolmesHost3:06

Hey, when Tyler starts showing us some, some variety, I will as well.

Charles HolmesHost3:10

Got one in there.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost3:12

Got one in there early.

Charles HolmesHost3:13

[laughs] I'm sorry.

Charles HolmesHost3:14

I had to.

Okay.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost3:17

So all right, before we get into it, do we want to, uh, walk people through the premise of the whole show?

Yes.

So for those who have forgotten, each episode of Last Song Standing covers one album where we're forced to choose the best song off of that album, AKA the last song standing.

In the season finale, we take all the songs that we picked across the entire season into a Royal Rumble.

They duke it out, they go head-to-head until we eliminate and agree upon the single greatest Tyler, the Creator song of all time.

We're gonna take a quick break, and then we're gonna get into your favorite, your favorite Tyler album.

I'm gonna have to talk this through, 'cause it might be my favorite Tyler album, but I haven't convinced myself fully.

Charles HolmesHost3:54

It's my fa- it's my favorite and the best.

Charles HolmesHost3:56

So, uh, after we get-

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost3:58

...

Charles HolmesHost3:58

some ads, you know, rolling, we'll get back.

Charles HolmesHost4:01

I'll drop some album facts about IGOR.

Charles HolmesHost4:04

You'll get into the themes.

Charles HolmesHost4:05

And then, you know, we'll have a little bit of banter about where IGOR stands in 2026.

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Charles HolmesHost5:07

All right.

Charles HolmesHost5:08

We're back with Tyler's sixth studio album, IGOR, released on May 17th, 2019.

Charles HolmesHost5:13

The 12-song project features collaborations with Charlie Wilson, Playboi Carti, Lil Uzi Vert, uh, Sammy Gold, among others.

Charles HolmesHost5:21

It spawned one single in Earthquake, and debuted at number one with 165,000 copies sold, becoming the first time Tyler went number one on the Billboard 200.

Charles HolmesHost5:31

And then in a big moment, I remember covering this, Tyler wins Best Rap Album at the 62nd Grammys.

Yeah.

Uh, that's the one thing I wanted to talk to you about because this is Tyler's sixth album, and it's his biggest to that point.

Debuts number one for the first time, gets his first Grammy.

And I was trying to think back, like, I mean, this is just how atypical I feel like his career has been in terms of, like, just this, like, continual ascension.

'Cause I think there's a world in which Flower Boy is The album for Tyler-

Charles HolmesHost6:04

Yeah

... and that becomes a, a peak in which he is not able to ever reach again.

You s- we've seen that how many times? W- you know, and usually that happens in, early in someone's career-

Charles HolmesHost6:15

Yeah

... with the debut or m- the, or the sophomore work.

A lot of times the debut.

I think of, like, a 50 Cent who just w- came out so big and was just never able to sustain that height, where Tyler's, you know, if it was charted on a graph, is just up and up and up.

And I feel like the back to back of a Flower Boy, which I feel like earned him a certain critical acclaim and respect, uh, brought in a new fan base, to then just follow it with an even better record in an Igor that is even more mature and more refined and more, you know, um, exact in a vision, just really...

We talked about Flower Boy changing tr- the trajectory of his career, but I really think it's the back to back of Flower Boy and then doing it again on a Igor that really just redefined Tyler as an artist.

Charles HolmesHost7:04

This comparison, the fans might kill me, you might kill me, but Tyler would be like, "Oh, no, that's actually, that might be actually right," uh, is to me his, his, his trajectory reminds me of, like, a Justin Timberlake.

Charles HolmesHost7:17

You know?

Mm-hmm.

Charles HolmesHost7:17

He loves Senorita, he loves Pharrell, The Neptunes, that era of music.

Charles HolmesHost7:22

And if you think about it, Tyler for, like, the first kind of part of his career was in a boy band.

Charles HolmesHost7:28

Odd Future in a way was very much that conception of a, a hip hop version of that.

Right, right.

I know what you're saying.

Charles HolmesHost7:36

But e- even though he had solo records, A, you're gonna find all of these same collaborators in Earl or, uh, Frank or Hodgy.

Charles HolmesHost7:46

And I think the reason why he's had this ascent truly is the fact that, like, once he breaks away from that structure of that family, you get a Justified, and I think this is his Future Sex/Love Sounds, where it's like, "Oh, who am I when I am not the center of a group? Who am I when I have to stand on my own two?" And of course, he had been standing on his own two for a while.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost8:10

But as we talked about last episode, you do see that moment where he doesn't wanna be the guy who's being noticed because he's in a Ridiculousness episode-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost8:21

... or he's on Twitter just, like, shit posting, or even all of the Adult Swim, um, the Adult Swim show Wither Squad.

Charles HolmesHost8:29

This to me is the moment where you're like, "Oh, okay, artistically you have finally, finally, finally shed a lot of the-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost8:37

...

Charles HolmesHost8:37

the baby fat, the baby weight."

Right.

Charles HolmesHost8:39

And this is, this is, like, a coming out record as, like, a fully bloomed artist.

Yeah, and I think al- we mentioned it last episode, but I think the work that was done not only artistically in refining a sound and learning to pick and choose his spots and all that we talked about, but I think the emotional work of a Flower Boy and the things that he confronted about himself and shared in his music for the first time allowed him to make a project like Igor, which feels as meaningful and thematically heavy as a Flower Boy, but a little more effortlessly.

Charles HolmesHost9:13

Yes, effortlessly.

I think Flower Boy is, like, you could tell it was him kind of working out that part of himself artistically.

Like, "I need to make an album that means something," and you can very much hear or, like, see the brushstrokes a little bit-

Charles HolmesHost9:29

Mm

...

if that makes sense, where Igor after having done all that work just feels like this was a situation that happened to him that was kinda efforts- effortlessly expressed through music in a way that doesn't feel forced.

Not to say that Flower B- Flower Boy feels forced, but it would definitely feel, felt more considered, if that makes sense.

Charles HolmesHost9:47

It's a little sweaty, and I don't mean that in a bad way.

Charles HolmesHost9:50

It's like sweaty sometimes can be good because you see how hard he's working.

Charles HolmesHost9:54

And I wanna bring up this quote because I was like, oh, the things that, you know, I thought about Flower Boy, Tyler has kind of said it as well where he said in an interview with, uh, I believe this was with, um, Rick Rubin, "I think Flower Boy is good and it's my best work thus far just 'cause it's an easy listen.

Charles HolmesHost10:10

It's not boring.

Charles HolmesHost10:11

It's just tame to me.

Charles HolmesHost10:13

Of course you're gonna like it.

Charles HolmesHost10:14

It's nothing too abrasive.

Charles HolmesHost10:15

It's nothing too weird about it." And he goes on to say in interviews with Rick, with interviews with Zane Lowe, where on Flower Boy he shaves away a lot of the idiosyncratic things we had known about Tyler, which is, like, he loves crunchy sounds and distortion-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost10:35

... and these things that have become hallmarks.

Charles HolmesHost10:36

And on Igor he adds that back in to the mix, but it does not take away.

Charles HolmesHost10:43

It, to your point, it is a seamless transition where it's like you think of because of the cover and a, a song like Earthquake that Igor is, like, a very soft record.

Charles HolmesHost10:54

But when you go back to it I'm like there's abrasive moments that, like-

Oh, yeah

Charles HolmesHost10:57

... they're very much like the distortion and the crunchiness and everything.

Charles HolmesHost11:00

I was like, oh, this is playing so well with the high, low, hard-

Well-

Charles HolmesHost11:05

... soft

... you see the...

That's perfect because that, you see that even in the album art with soft pink background-

Charles HolmesHost11:10

Yep

... and a black and white really contrast-heavy photo of him that is literally cut ja- in jagged sh- you know-

Charles HolmesHost11:18

Yeah

... edges, which I think is the perfect album cover to, to relay the sound of the record, which is exactly that because it's starts with that synth.

There's, you know, distorted synth on every single song and but yet he's rapping less than he ever has before.

He's singing on most of this record.

There are just-

Charles HolmesHost11:37

Yeah

... there's only less than a handful of moments where you get a traditional rap verse.

I mean, even Earthquake wh- which we'll, we'll probably talk about later, doesn't have a verse from Tyler.

It's essentially, like, two hooks and then when-

Charles HolmesHost11:49

Yeah

...

the verse that comes is a Playboi Carti verse.

And so we're seeing those moments of him being the producer that he, you know, we saw, we talked about that with, like, a Boredom where he's more of the curator a la Kanye putting pieces together.

And so we get the best of that world, and then Igor I feel like what makes it special is the That juxtaposition of soft and distortion and that-

Charles HolmesHost12:12

Yeah

...

the, it's the high-low, it's the soft and abrasive perfectly melded together to, uh, you know, always, I'm always ta- taking it back to the themes of the album, which, uh, maybe I can use as a transition into the concept of the record.

But essentially having mixed feelings about this guy in his life that he has feelings for, who he's caught in this love triangle with.

So it's Tyler liking this guy, this guy being involved with this girl, also seems to be leading Tyler on.

But the irony of the record is that the, it seems like the guy that Tyler likes in this, uh, story is going through something similar that he went through on Flower Boy, which it doesn't seem like he is comfortable with that part of his sexuality.

Charles HolmesHost12:54

Yeah.

Uh, there's multiple times on the album where Tyler's saying, "I know your secrets.

Take the mask off." Like, you know, kind of alluding to maybe that part of why this relationship isn't working is because this person's not yet comfortable with that part of himself.

And so the, the album is essentially, it's really clever because it's not heavy-handed, but there is a very clear linear progression of emotion where it starts in romantic infatuation on Earthquake, moves into, like, a longing and obsession on songs like I Think and, um, some of those middle tracks.

We get the rejection, we get anger in New Magic Wand and resentment, we get indifference in I Don't Love You Anymore, and then ultimately it ends in acceptance where he's, Are We Still Friends is very much him accepting the fact that this thing we had was beautiful and it's gone, and that's okay.

And so it's really this beautiful arc of, of th- this unrequited relationship expressed over however many, 10, 12 tracks, very concisely, not heavy-handed.

There's no really skits aside from, like, John Carmichael.

Very brief little moments that-

Charles HolmesHost14:01

Yeah

... kind of anchor the thematic kind of areas of the record.

[smacks lips] And then of course, like, I think the most brilliant, or one of the more brilliant things about the Igor character is that he's playing on this idea of, like, the classic Igor sidekick grotesque, um, you know, infatuated with this master but seen as a sidekick by the master himself, playing on the scientist, the classic, you know what I'm talking about, the sci-fi trope.

Charles HolmesHost14:27

Yeah.

Um, and so he's playing on that, I think, uh, with the Igor character.

And just one last thing, what's cool about the record too is that Igor is this character but he also has a sound in my mind.

So Igor's theme, we're presented with a 23-second one synth note introduction of the record, which that bass synth that we hear at, at, at the start of the record is in every single song.

And that to me represents the Igor character, and it really anchors all these, all these songs together and glues them together sonically in a way that I think, you know, one of the strengths of this album is that it is very sonically cohesive despite having a lot of variety in songs s- s- types.

It's, again, Tyler being such a refined producer where he knows how to, to build a world as articulate and as, as narrowly focused as ever.

We saw glimpses of that throughout his career, but I think Igor is where things really come together in terms of, like, the thing I always say, I can picture Igor, the world of Igor in my mind.

Charles HolmesHost15:32

Yeah.

You know, it's that sonically concise.

Charles HolmesHost15:35

What I think works also for me about this album so much, going back to, like, that Igil- that Igor figure as a character, is that Tyler when he's talking about this record and he's talking about how much he... 'Cause he, he's always been like this, how much he hates his voice, how everybody wants him to rap, and he knows how good his rapping voice is, but he wishes he had that type of pitched up, being able to hit voice, being able to hit those notes and everything.

Charles HolmesHost16:09

And what's so funny is you have him building this character that is playing upon very, uh, European beauty standards with the blonde wig.

Oh, right.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost16:19

So it's like, it's so funny how you have this juxtaposition of Igor as this short, grotesque monster who would probably traditionally have a voice similar to Tyler.

Right.

Charles HolmesHost16:31

Something that's gruff.

Charles HolmesHost16:32

But then the visual when you see him in the videos or you see him on tour of this, like, stick thin-

Right

Charles HolmesHost16:38

... pastel suit, blonde wig.

Charles HolmesHost16:41

It's, it is Tyler doing something that he had been doing all, all of his career, which is embodying characters to tell a story, but this is the one where I'm like, "Okay, this works on a conceptual level, on a narrative level-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost16:58

... and on an aesthetic level-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost16:59

... where it is just, it's seamless.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost17:01

Where on a lot of times with his other characters, I'm just like, "This is, like, a funny punchline, but it doesn't always go here."

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, the pieces all coming together.

Like, it, this is what makes this album so special because it's everything we've saw in Tyler and gotten bits and pieces across his career put together in one k- kind of perfectly constructed package.

Charles HolmesHost17:22

Why do you think, before we get to, uh, a very contentious segment, why do you think love triangles reappear in Tyler's catalog so much? Because his characters on, um, Wolf-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost17:36

... obviously at the camp are, are in a love triangle.

Charles HolmesHost17:40

On Igor they're in a l- in a love triangle, and then even on, um, Call Me If You Get Lost, there's, uh, there's a love triangle.

Charles HolmesHost17:47

So why do you think that this is something that kinda keeps-

Well-

Charles HolmesHost17:50

... popping up in, like-

There's-

Charles HolmesHost17:52

And I'm not talking, I don't wanna get into, like, what Tyler's love life is.

Charles HolmesHost17:55

I'm talking more-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost17:56

... narratively, why do you think that that is something that he keeps trying to interrogate?

Well, that's the thing, [sighs] 'cause it is, so there's just, if you go on, like, the Tyler Reddit, it's like there's so many theories about who this- ... you know, white guy is that he's infatuated in.

There's theories that the same guy on Flower Boy is the same guy on Igor, which is the same guy on Call Me If You Get Lost.

I do think there's some truth to, like, this just being inspired by real events.

Um, there's even connections some have brought all the way back to, like, a song like Fucking Young.

Charles HolmesHost18:29

Mm-hmm.

There's just, it's, so it's just, it's, uh, when I was doing my seasons on both these records, it's something I had to contend with a lot, which is, like, I don't like getting into that real world-

Charles HolmesHost18:38

Yeah

... shit, and so I'm more interested in, like, narratively to your question, you know, why is it, um, something he keeps returning to? Like, the first thing I would say is, like, it does seem like it's inspired by real-life events, but I mean, it is just a kinda classic and interesting, um, narrative framework that has worked across, you know, rom-coms forever.

But I do think there is something interesting thematically about it being the gender fluidity of it all.

Charles HolmesHost19:05

Yeah.

And, like, the, the needing to accept yourself in order to accept a love that is presented to you, you know? And that was the story of Flower Boy for Tyler personally, and now Tyler being on the other side of that is dealing with someone that was once like him in the past, which I think is just kind of interesting.

Um, so I don't know if it's anything other than than real-life events and just a, a timeless and proven thematic kind of narrative framework, you know?

Charles HolmesHost19:32

And I think what's interesting to me as well is, like, there's, there's a, there's a racial component as well because he's always making jokes about this white boy, right?

Right.

Charles HolmesHost19:45

And then you get a project like Igor where he's wearing the blonde wig, he's dancing in a certain way, and then you go to a very braggadocios record like Call Me If You Get Lost where almost Tyler, I think he's, to your point, he's playing with gender fluidity, he's playing with race, he's playing with just what it means to, like, be a rap artist at one moment and then wanna make rock music or make R&B-

Right

Charles HolmesHost20:13

... or make soul.

Charles HolmesHost20:14

And that's why this, this era of c- his career is so interesting to me because he's getting better at playing with that without being obvious.

That's the thing.

That's why it works so well is because it's not heavy-handed at all.

Charles HolmesHost20:29

Yeah.

It just feels natural and organic, not forced.

It's not him trying to make a serious album.

It's just him expressing what it seems like real-life events and real feelings through music, which is what music does at its best is capture emotion, you know?

Charles HolmesHost20:44

Hell fucking yeah.

Charles HolmesHost20:45

So should we, should we pivot to, uh, like I said, our most contentious segment, Quiz Me If You Get Lost?

Justin SaylesPanelist20:51

Trivia.

It used to be the nominations, but I feel like the contention is now in qu-

Charles HolmesHost20:57

[laughs]

Now in the Quiz Me If You Get Lost section.

So for those that don't know, Quiz Me If You Get Lost is where Charles and I attempt to stump each other with little-known facts about the album.

Uh, whoever gets the most questions correct will get first pick in the last long-standing segment of the episode, but maybe more importantly, we are keeping a running tally this entire season, and whoever has the most points at the end of the season gets a prize picked out by Justin Sales.

Charles HolmesHost21:22

Hell yeah.

Justin, welcome to the episode.

You're a fan of Igor, right?

Justin SaylesPanelist21:26

I love Igor.

Yeah.

Justin SaylesPanelist21:27

I think, you know, last album, Charles asked me what I thought about this in relation to the rest of his discography, and I don't, I'm sure you guys will get into it, but this is probably the pinnacle of it still, but definitely to this point.

Yeah, I agree.

Um-

Charles HolmesHost21:43

Come on

...

I just, is it my favorite? I just go, maybe it's, maybe it's better if I don't pick because I just, I c- I can make a case for Flower Boy, Igor, and Chromakopia, and I feel like-

Charles HolmesHost21:53

It's so funny.

Charles HolmesHost21:53

Chromakopia, I can't wait till we get-

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost21:56

That is an album I bounced off so hard.

Charles HolmesHost21:59

[laughs]

Goddamn.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost22:02

Call Me If You Get Lost.

I, yeah, okay.

All right.

So running tally so far, you're up by one.

You have five points, I have four.

Charles HolmesHost22:10

Okay.

You wanna go first?

Charles HolmesHost22:12

I will go first because do you want me to start with-

Don't say fucking softball

Charles HolmesHost22:16

...

Charles HolmesHost22:16

this, no, 'cause I'm gonna start-

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost22:18

... with my most difficult one.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost22:19

Because you, you did a season on this.

Charles HolmesHost22:22

I really had to, like, there was a point where I was like, "This, too easy, too easy," so this is gonna be difficult.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost22:29

Tyler worked with engineer Vic Wainstein, sorry if I butchered that, on the album.

Charles HolmesHost22:34

What, and n- he talks very much about, like, how exacting Tyler was-

Mm-hmm

Charles HolmesHost22:38

... and especially about 808s and how much they needed to work on the 808s to make them knock on this record.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost22:46

So what plugin was their secret sauce to maintaining the fidelity of the 808s?

Dude, okay, this is a really good question.

I don't remember what it is, but I love this question.

I can't wait to be re-remembered what it is.

I'll take the loss right away, but I love this question.

Charles HolmesHost23:00

Little Labs, uh, VOG, V-O-G.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost23:03

Yeah.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost23:04

I was reading, reading that, reading that interview.

Where'd you, yeah, where'd you find that?

Charles HolmesHost23:08

Oh, I was just, like, researching and looking it up.

Charles HolmesHost23:11

If you look up, uh, Tyler ego- Igor engineer, he has, like, an interview where he kind of goes through, 'cause I believe he had already worked with Tyler on Flower Boy.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost23:22

And he's getting very much into, like, the nitty-gritty of, I for- they worked with another engineer who kinda was, like, helping them a little bit, showing them, like, "Okay, here's how you work the 808s" so they can get to where Tyler wanted them to be-

Okay

Charles HolmesHost23:36

... without losing any of that fidelity, and I was like, "Oh, that's fucking interesting."

Yeah, it's Little Labs Voice of God Bass Resonance, it looks like.

Tune low end with confidence.

It's, it's a universal audio plugin for any, uh, audio nerds out there.

It's 50 bucks.

Charles HolmesHost23:50

[laughs]

It did the jo- did the job.

That's cool.

I love that.

You know I love that kinda shit.

Okay.

This one I picked out just for you.

It might be a softball, who knows? Tyler wrote Running Out of Time during a recording session with what other rapper?

Charles HolmesHost24:05

With what rapper?

With what rapper.

He was in a session with this rapper and he wrote Running Out of Time.

I can give you a hint for a half point deduction.

Charles HolmesHost24:14

I wanna say Because he uses the same sample from Bound 2, which he also worked on a version of Bound that never came out.

Charles HolmesHost24:22

It's not Kanye.

No.

Charles HolmesHost24:26

Give me a hint.

Okay.

The rapper is from Harlem.

Charles HolmesHost24:30

A$AP Ferg.

Yep.

Yeah.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost24:32

A$AP Ferg.

Okay, half a point.

Charles HolmesHost24:34

Hell yeah.

Great job.

That's, like, such a rad- like, 'cause that song sounds nothing like-

Charles HolmesHost24:38

I...

Charles HolmesHost24:38

No, no, I read that and I was like, "Why the fu- why the fuck w- would Tyler, like, be with A$AP Ferg?" But I'm like, "Oh, no, that makes sense."

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost24:44

Like, he's w- he's palling around with Rocky.

Charles HolmesHost24:46

Okay, this is gonna be a softball for you.

You said softball.

Charles HolmesHost24:50

When did Tyler have the original idea for Gone Gone? What year?

2013 Wolf tour.

Charles HolmesHost24:58

Yes.

Yeah.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost24:58

Damn, I knew you would get it.

Charles HolmesHost25:01

I knew you would get it.

Right.

Charles HolmesHost25:01

But also, not to spoil, Gone Gone one of my favorite, favorite records on this album, and to know that Tyler, even back then on Wolf, like a project that I think we both like, but we're like, "Okay, he's getting there, but it's not perfected"

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost25:17

... him having the i- insight to be like, "Let me keep this"

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost25:19

"Like, let me keep this idea.

Charles HolmesHost25:20

It's not on this" 'Cause he said, like, there were a couple records where he's like, "It's not meant for this record.

Charles HolmesHost25:24

It's not meant for this record"

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost25:26

... and then bring it back out.

Charles HolmesHost25:27

I was like, "Oh, yeah"

It's, uh, knowing how good it got, it's like obviously they made the right decision, and like, yeah, to have that intuition to be like, "This is not right," or, "It's not ready," or, "I'm not," or, "I'm not ready to make this song yet," and to see what it becomes, it's like ra- There's a hundred, there's like so many Radioheads, like, songs like that that started, like, 10 years.

They always saved it and then when you get the final product 10 years later you're just like, "Oh, okay." They know, they have the instincts to know, like, "We're not ready yet," or, "It's not right for this moment," or whatever it is.

And like, that-

Charles HolmesHost25:58

And to, and to that, a- a- and to your point, I don't even know if Tyler was the, at a place as a producer-

Who could, yeah

Charles HolmesHost26:05

... who could really get that song, which is such a, just like a monument in his career, to where it would need to go.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost26:11

He needed to, like-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost26:13

...

Charles HolmesHost26:13

he needed to level up.

Yeah.

All right.

So I'll throw you a softball.

Charles HolmesHost26:18

Okay.

Igor's final song, Are We Still Friends, features a guitar solo from what famous rock musician?

Charles HolmesHost26:25

Jack White?

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost26:26

Come on.

That was too easy, fuck.

Charles HolmesHost26:28

Come on, that's too easy, bro.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost26:30

All right, this one, this one is on the easier side, but we'll, we'll see if you get it.

Charles HolmesHost26:37

One of Tyler's favorite moments, and my favorite moments on Igor, is the bridge on I Think.

Yep.

Charles HolmesHost26:43

There are a lot of versions of I Think as a bridge.

Charles HolmesHost26:47

Which number version do we end up hearing?

Damn.

I've definitely read this before, but I don't know the exact number.

Charles HolmesHost26:53

He tweeted out nine.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost26:54

So this is like the ninth version of the bridge-

Okay

Charles HolmesHost26:56

... which is, like, just incredible.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost26:59

Like, it's just [laughs]

I think starting with Cherry Bomb, but really on Flower Boy and then really on Igor, he just f- he loves bridges.

It's like his-

Charles HolmesHost27:05

Loves them

...

he loves-

Charles HolmesHost27:07

We'll talk about his love of bridges another day.

[laughs] Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost27:08

But loves them.

Okay, so last one I'm gonna give you...

Okay, this is an interesting one.

So Tyler said that the minimalistic sound of Igor was inspired by something specific.

Do you know? So he's talked about, like, letting the songs breathe, not trying to fill every single moment with vocals or stacking production.

He just, like, he was inspired by something that was minimalistic and was like, "Oh, I need to take this idea into my music."

Charles HolmesHost27:40

I believe he went to a friend's house and the only thing in the house was, like, a couch and, like, this super, like, amazing artistic sound system, and I believe he said something to the effect of, like, "We have so much shit in our lives, in our house that we don't need, and I wanted to kinda make a record that was representative of that"

Damn, Charles.

Damn.

Charles HolmesHost28:03

Come on, I love this record, bro.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost28:06

Come on.

So do you...

Okay, I have a theory.

He never says who this is, uh, but I think it's pretty clear who it is.

Charles HolmesHost28:13

Connie?

You see, the, he also said the house is in Malibu.

Charles HolmesHost28:16

Rick Rubin?

Rick Rubin.

Charles HolmesHost28:17

It, I think it's Rick Rubin.

And he did that interview with Rick Rubin for Igor, so I think it's, I think it was Rick Rubin's house, which, Rick Rubin coming up two episodes in a row.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost28:26

Hey, it's...

Charles HolmesHost28:29

I will say my barber did tell me a crazy story about being at Rick Rubin's house.

Charles HolmesHost28:33

I will not share it here.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost28:34

But I was just like, "Yeah, man, I'm glad you got, like, you got your life back." Like, he was like [laughs] he was like, "Yeah, man, it was a crazy night." [laughs]

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost28:43

Rick was not there.

Okay.

All right.

Charles HolmesHost28:45

All right, so where, where does that stand point-wise?

I'm fucked.

Uh, okay, so you have a seven point, 7.5.

I have five, so I got some work to do.

Charles HolmesHost28:55

Step it up, Cole.

Charles HolmesHost28:56

Step it up, Cole.

Charles HolmesHost28:57

[laughs]

You...

Okay, but the thing is, I...

No, ne- never mind.

Charles HolmesHost29:01

I will-

You do this every time

Charles HolmesHost29:03

...

Charles HolmesHost29:03

if we're being real though, you're a bigger Tyler fan-

I know

Charles HolmesHost29:08

...

Charles HolmesHost29:08

in his later career.

It's a, this, it's a thing, I have a bad memory when it comes to, like, like, fact, like, facts like this.

Charles HolmesHost29:15

So do I.

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost29:16

Most of this stuff I've, like, it's funny, I'm like, most of the stuff I've read before.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Charles HolmesHost29:20

But for some reason it's like I was covering this music still, and it's not until I read it again I was like, "Oh, that was in my mind"

Well, I do so much, like, this kinda work for Dissect, I think my brain just, like, retains only what it needs, 'cause, like, I did a season on Igor but this was, like, I don't know, four years ago now.

So I'm just like, I obviously read everything about this album but because then I turn around and do the same thing for another album-

Charles HolmesHost29:41

Exactly

... right after that, it's just fucking...

Charles HolmesHost29:43

Poof.

[laughs] Okay.

That was great.

Let's go ahead and get into our nominations.

Charles HolmesHost29:49

Yes.

All right, so remember the goal of each episode of Last Song Standing is to determine the single best song Tyler, the Creator ever made.

We're gonna select the songs off of Igor that we think are in contention for Tyler's best.

We're gonna nominate three and we're forced to choose one by the end of the episode.

Charles, do you want to go first? I...

Are you just gonna get the one that I know you're gonna pick out of the way or where are you going first?

Charles HolmesHost30:13

No, no, no, no, no, we're gonna, we're gonna lead up to that.

Charles HolmesHost30:15

I'm going to go to my pick that- I don't know if it's the best song in this album, but it damn, damn near might be my favorite song in the album, I think.

Charles HolmesHost30:28

Can you just, before I even start, can you just play it?

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost30:31

I just wanna play a little bit of it-

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost30:33

... just to kind of, like, situate myself.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost30:36

I love this song so much.

Four, four, four, four, four.

[upbeat music] Escape, four.

It's so good.

Let me, let me fast-forward a little bit.

What the fuck is your motive?

Charles HolmesHost30:49

Mm.

Man, I wish you would call me by your name 'cause I'm sorry.

One thing I love about this record is how understated his vocals are almost the entire time.

W-

Charles HolmesHost31:00

Dog, I was about to talk about that.

Okay.

Charles HolmesHost31:02

Li- it's, it is an artist completely in control of their instrument.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost31:09

Where early in Tyler's career, to me, a lot of times his vocal would be the star, which is good in the beginning of your career, but as you grow up and as you listen to more music, there are moments on, I think, in the rest of the record where, I don't even know if understated is the right word, but his vocal almost sounds a little bit, like, bored.

Mm-hmm.

Charles HolmesHost31:33

But in a, in a perfectly-

No, I unders- yeah, yeah

Charles HolmesHost31:34

... i- in a purposeful way.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost31:36

And it's like, there's this, it's this four on the floor beat.

Charles HolmesHost31:39

It- there's this groove.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost31:41

It's escalating, and it's taking you on a journey, but it's not in a rush to get there.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost31:46

This, to me, is, I think, but also Igor as a whole, is a record about subtraction, where it's like even though there are a lot of maximalist ideas in the record, there's a lot of different things he's doing, it's never overpowering.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost31:59

Like, when we talk about the bridge, [sings]

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost32:05

Like, that's a moment where, I think in previous records, Tyler's trying to show off.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost32:11

He loves bridges, and like, to me in 2026, we've just had so many years of when you, when a, like, a rapper or a singer, a producer wants to show off, they throw in this bridge.

Charles HolmesHost32:24

And I'm like, "No, a bridge has a point."

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost32:28

It is there to transport you from one place to another.

Charles HolmesHost32:32

It is not a repository to show off, to jangle some keys-

Right

Charles HolmesHost32:37

... to put all of the ideas that did not fit in the n- more normal structure of the song.

Right.

Charles HolmesHost32:42

And to me, why I love, I think, is I'm like, of course Tyler loves bridges, but he does it in such an effective way-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost32:50

... where it's so understated that every single time I listen to it, I hear new things, and I'm amazed by just how, like, technically brilliant-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost32:59

...

Charles HolmesHost32:59

it is.

Charles HolmesHost33:00

But even the, "I can't, oh, oh, I cannot tell you."

I think I tell, oh, that, yeah.

Charles HolmesHost33:04

Not the hook, the, um, whatchama call it?

The little refrain afterwards, yeah.

Charles HolmesHost33:07

"How can I tell you?"

[laughs]

Charles HolmesHost33:10

"How can I tell you?" And his singing voice is so much more confident.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost33:14

He's so much more confident in his instrument.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost33:17

Uh, like, w- do you like this record?

I love this record.

There, it, there, you'll see, I'll do some honorable mentions at the end of the ones that I couldn't pick.

I mean, half this record I could've, you know, you can make a case for half the songs.

I Think A- I Think is a perfectly valid nomination.

Do you know, the, the backstory of the song's pretty interesting.

Do you know it at all? Okay, so he was saying that he, you know, his dad's Nigerian, and he started to get, like, look up, try to get more, I guess, in touch with his Nigerian side of himself.

Charles HolmesHost33:46

Yeah.

And he found Nigerian music, specifically from the '70s and '80s, and started looking at, like, um, photos of, like, old clubs people would go to during that time.

And he said, "I wanted to live in that moment for a day, so me, Solange, and Frank Ocean flew to Italy." They, uh, didn't go, end up going to any clubs, but they made, I think, during the trip.

And what's cool about the song is that there's two sample- or there's one sample and one interpolation, both being from Nigerian dance songs from the '80s.

From the same year, actually, 1982.

So the drum sample of the song comes from a song from, uh, his name, I don't know the, I'm not even gonna pronounce this right, but Kono Tellis, Nigerian artist.

Uh, the song's called Get Down from 1982, is he pulls the drums from here.

[Get Down by Kono Tellis playing] So, I mean, it's so sick.

Okay, so he pulls those drums, and then he interpolates a song called Special Lady by another Nigerian musician, B.B. Kmaskel, and here's what that sounds like.

[Special Lady by Tyler, The Creator playing]

I feel like falling in love.

This time I think it's for real.

I feel-

It's so sick.

So-

Charles HolmesHost35:01

It's so, it is... 'Cause even to that point, and the reason I love this song so much is, you know, I love dancing, and you have elements on the song where he has the, "Four, eight-"

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost35:14

... "Four," where it, it does feel like an '80s dance record-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost35:18

... call and response.

Charles HolmesHost35:20

We're all on the dance floor.

Charles HolmesHost35:21

There's a DJ.

Charles HolmesHost35:22

And to me, for Tyler to get to a moment in his career where he can make a dance record-

There's, yeah

Charles HolmesHost35:28

... that works.

You can't- This is, like, kind of new territory for him.

You can't really think of a song like I Think in his pat- in his catalog to this point.

Charles HolmesHost35:35

No.

Charles HolmesHost35:36

And it's, to me, for this to kind of be, not the first time, but, like, definitely, like, an early attempt at you trying to, like, you hear these Nigerian records.

Charles HolmesHost35:46

You, 'cause he also talked about, like, listening to a lot of '80s music a- during the recording of this process.

Charles HolmesHost35:52

To be able to synthesize that-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost35:54

...

Charles HolmesHost35:55

it works not only as a dance record, but it works as a Tyler dance record.

Charles HolmesHost35:59

If we go back to Cherry Bomb, he was trying a lot of, like, rock infused elements on that, and that's a perfect example of, like, when I feel like it wasn't completely there.

Charles HolmesHost36:08

He didn't have full mastery o- of, of it.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost36:12

On this record, he's able to, like, there's, there's records where he's, like, sampling or interrelat- interpolating, like, Japanese city pop.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost36:20

But he brings it into his world.

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost36:22

So I think it's just, I was listening to, to it on the car ride here.

Charles HolmesHost36:25

I was like There's just something about the groove-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost36:28

... that's so fucking infectious.

And he knows, yeah, to your point, like, he know- he's at a point in his career artistically where he knows, "Yeah, I don't need to do too much on this song.

I can let the groove of it be the star, and when I come in, I'm just gonna sound smooth and cool." And there's something-- He does that so many times on the record where the beat is feeling one way, like New Magic Wand, where it's like, it's so aggressive, and then he comes in just so opposite of that.

Charles HolmesHost36:56

Yeah.

It's, again, that contrast of soft and hard, and he's just working...

He just, it's, it just feels effortless.

Um-

Charles HolmesHost37:02

I think I'm falling in love.

[laughs] Well, what's also, and th- so on Igor, he does this a lot.

Like, and, and on Twitter after the y- the album came out, he was, um, really into, like, pointing out specific moments on the record that he loved, and he seemed like he was very intentionally creating singular moments in songs that weren't-

Charles HolmesHost37:19

Yeah

... repeated.

To that point, what's cool about this, um, the choruses of this song, if you listen closely, they're never repeated the exact same, and it builds across the entire song.

So I'm gonna play all three hooks, s- sections of all three hooks, and notice how hook one is very understated.

It's just Tyler kinda almost singing, like, what feels like a scratch take.

Uh, I'll just play it here.

One more.

I think I'm falling in love.

He's, like, barely audible, you know?

This time I think it's for real.

Okay, so we get that more understated version.

Charles HolmesHost37:57

Okay.

The second iteration of it, we get Solange more in the foreground, and the vocals are doubled more consistently.

I think I'm falling in love.

Do you hear the difference, like, dynamically?

Charles HolmesHost38:09

Even you hear the, the screech in the back.

Charles HolmesHost38:12

They're like, "Yeah."

And then now for the third and final iteration at the very end of the song, even bigger.

I think I'm falling in love.

So to go from that first chorus where it's very, like, almost inaudible to then now at the very end of the song, so you're getting this dynamic arc across the entire thing.

Like, this is just, like, really technically sound, like, big picture thinking about the progression of not just I need to make this part really good, and then I'll move on to the next part, make that part really...

Uh, no, I'm thinking actually across the entire thing dynamically.

And it's just, like, stuff like that.

You're, there's just little moments and details all throughout this record.

We've talked a lot, like, a lot about this, um, kind of phenomenon in, like, a Frank Ocean Blonde.

Charles HolmesHost38:57

Yeah.

There's reasons we keep returning to an Igor more than a Wolf because there are these details.

There are all these, all these little special moments that our brain hasn't, like, can't predict because it's always kinda moving.

Um, and there's so much information tastefully kind of planted so that we're, we are just always entertained, always finding something new.

And yeah, I-

Charles HolmesHost39:19

What I would, what I would also say, though, is, you know, they say this about movies, which is, it's, it's gonna be a dumb statement, but, like, movies are a visual medium.

Charles HolmesHost39:29

So if you can show something, that's going to do something to the audience more than you just telling them.

Right.

Charles HolmesHost39:34

In the same way, music is an auditory experience.

Charles HolmesHost39:38

I think in the past, Tyler, if you think about his I Think, and it being about love and obsession and, and that building that crescendo, normally I feel like Tyler would've said it.

Mm.

Charles HolmesHost39:52

He would've rapped it.

Right.

Charles HolmesHost39:53

There would've been, it would, there would've been a texture where it's like, okay, he's showing the escalation through his voice.

Charles HolmesHost40:00

And to this, to your point, it's like sonically he's showing you the progression, so you don't...

Charles HolmesHost40:06

Intuitively, when it hits your ears, and emotionally, you feel it before you do intellectually.

Yeah, yeah.

No.

Charles HolmesHost40:11

And that-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost40:12

... is what makes a great artist, where it is-

Yeah

Charles HolmesHost40:14

... like, "Okay, I do not have to, I can be subtle about this.

Charles HolmesHost40:18

I do not have to point to how dope this is."

Yeah.

Charles HolmesHost40:22

You understand it before, like, just in your soul before anything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Perfect.

I'm gonna bring Justin in here.

Are you a fan of I Think? 'Cause I think, I think this a- album has, like, a good chance of maybe using your coach's challenge later in the episode, so I'm gonna get your take on all these songs.

Justin SaylesPanelist40:36

Okay.

Justin SaylesPanelist40:37

Um, yeah, I...

Justin SaylesPanelist40:39

Y- you know, Charles, you were bringing up, like, '80s, uh, um, dance songs, and to me, I was saying this to you, you yesterday, Cole.

Justin SaylesPanelist40:48

This feels like a roller skating rink jam to me a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

Justin SaylesPanelist40:51

But, like, kinda, like, I don't know, but with, like, a melancholy vibe mixed to it.

Justin SaylesPanelist40:56

It's-

Yeah

Justin SaylesPanelist40:57

...

Justin SaylesPanelist40:57

I, I love this song, and yeah, I don't know.

Justin SaylesPanelist41:02

Uh-