The Quantum Based Podcast - With Dr Sara Pugh
Aug 17, 2026 · 1 hr 56 min · 15 segments
Astrophysicist Professor Bob Fosbury joins Dr Sara Pugh to explain photometabolism — the role of light, and especially near-infrared, in mitochondrial health, diabetes, obesity and ageing. We look at…
Bob FosburyGuest
Sarah PughHost
And what I liked about it is you talk about, uh, I would say as above and so below or the, the human, the microcosm and the macrocosm.

But I think what I liked most about your paper is how it starts to bring lots of things together in the big question is what is life and why do we have metabolic problems nowadays on the planet.

Uh, I think w- we, retrospectively, we realized that we came to this problem because things were going wrong on, uh, in the urban environment on Earth.

Um, we're suffering, uh, epidemics of type 2 diabetes and, and, and various other diseases of aging.

Um, and, uh, why is this happening now? And, uh, w- it gradually dawned on us, and I'm sure on other people as well to some extent, that what changed over the last 50 years is the way we light our interiors.

In the late 1930s, I think we came across fluorescent tubes, uh, which are very reasonably efficient at producing visible light, uh, but pr- produce very little light outside the visible spectrum.

And so people suffered under, uh, fluorescent tubes for, for 50 years, uh, before the change to white LEDs.

And I think we all remember that, you know, being under, uh, lots of ceiling, uh, the, um, uh, fluorescent tubes was a pretty miserable experience, especially if there were no windows in the, in the rooms.

Then we came to the white LED and, you know, the, the, the inventor of that got the Nobel Prize, which was very nice for, for a cheap source of white lighting.

Little did they realize that this was precipitating what we consider to be a major disaster, and that is that, uh, people thought that light was needed for vision.

Of course, we know that light is essential for life because it's basically powering us through photosynthesis.

Not everyone, 'cause it's very complicated, but, um, photosynthesis is obviously important for, w- actually crucial for, for life on, on a planet like ours.

But, um, you know, vision was the, the, the, the, the driver for the choice of lighting.

And so the inefficiencies of the old tungsten filament lamps, and they really were inefficient at producing visible light, but all the waste energy from these tungsten filament bulbs was supporting our biology, and people didn't know that.

So we put all the efforts into making more and more efficient, uh, white LEDs to illuminate the interior environments.

And as we were doing that, we were cutting off, because the LEDs are so efficient, they don't produce any light outside of the visible spectrum.

They produce essentially no infrared light at all, and they produce no UV light that we need for vitamin D in, in the outdoors.

We don't get that indoors anyway, but, uh, so the, the white LEDs are extremely good for, for vision, but they make us sick.

And what I liked about it is you talk about, uh, I would say as above and so below or the, the human, the microcosm and the macrocosm.

But I think what I liked most about your paper is how it starts to bring lots of things together in the big question is what is life and why do we have metabolic problems nowadays on the planet.

Uh, I think w- we, retrospectively, we realized that we came to this problem because things were going wrong on, uh, in the urban environment on Earth.

Um, we're suffering, uh, epidemics of type 2 diabetes and, and, and various other diseases of aging.

Um, and, uh, why is this happening now? And, uh, w- it gradually dawned on us, and I'm sure on other people as well to some extent, that what changed over the last 50 years is the way we light our interiors.

In the late 1930s, I think we came across fluorescent tubes, uh, which are very reasonably efficient at producing visible light, uh, but pr- produce very little light outside the visible spectrum.

And so people suffered under, uh, fluorescent tubes for, for 50 years, uh, before the change to white LEDs.

And I think we all remember that, you know, being under, uh, lots of ceiling, uh, the, um, uh, fluorescent tubes was a pretty miserable experience, especially if there were no windows in the, in the rooms.

Then we came to the white LED and, you know, the, the, the inventor of that got the Nobel Prize, which was very nice for, for a cheap source of white lighting.

Little did they realize that this was precipitating what we consider to be a major disaster, and that is that, uh, people thought that light was needed for vision.

Of course, we know that light is essential for life because it's basically powering us through photosynthesis.

Not everyone, 'cause it's very complicated, but, um, photosynthesis is obviously important for, w- actually crucial for, for life on, on a planet like ours.

But, um, you know, vision was the, the, the, the, the driver for the choice of lighting.

And so the inefficiencies of the old tungsten filament lamps, and they really were inefficient at producing visible light, but all the waste energy from these tungsten filament bulbs was supporting our biology, and people didn't know that.

So we put all the efforts into making more and more efficient, uh, white LEDs to illuminate the interior environments.

And as we were doing that, we were cutting off, because the LEDs are so efficient, they don't produce any light outside of the visible spectrum.

They produce essentially no infrared light at all, and they produce no UV light that we need for vitamin D in, in the outdoors.

We don't get that indoors anyway, but, uh, so the, the white LEDs are extremely good for, for vision, but they make us sick.
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