‘Euphoria’ Season 3, Episode 7: Only Fangs

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Joanna RobinsonHost1:30

[upbeat music] Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:51

I'm Jordan Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:52

And we are live here in the studio.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:55

Ill-advisedly, here we are.

Yeah, whose idea was this?

Joanna RobinsonHost1:57

Hmm, I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:58

Couldn't tell you.

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:59

Uh, we're here to talk about Euphoria, episode seven, Rain or Shine.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:02

Rob, how are you feeling?

Uh, confused, startled, alarmed.

Not bitten by a snake, though.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:07

Uh-

So that's a win

Joanna RobinsonHost2:08

... we love that for you.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:09

Uh, if you are watching this live and you're in the chat on the, uh, YouTube channel, our stalwart producers are monitoring that chat, and we will sort of...

Joanna RobinsonHost2:18

If there are questions that make sense for us to answer, they'll, they'll toss it to us-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost2:22

... and then we might answer them later on.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:23

So pop those answers in the chat.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:25

Why not?

Do you have any bait for the listeners? Like, what would catch Kai or Dev's eye, do you think?

Joanna RobinsonHost2:30

Um, anything about Maddy.

Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:33

Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:34

Um-

A casual Lakers mention, perhaps.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:36

Oh, okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:36

Yeah, sure.

I just think a little could go a long way.

It's not up to us, it's up to them.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:40

How can they email us? If they don't reach us via chat, how can they email us?

You can always email us at prestigetv@spotify.com, Jo.

You can especially email us, although this week we have a lot to talk about in this particular regard, maddysnumberoneboy@gmail.com.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:54

You know how in The Godfather he's like, "Look how they massacred my boy"?

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:57

That's how I feel about you.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:58

I feel like they massacred you, Rob Mahoney, Maddy's number one boy, by sort of putting your girl in a tough spot inside of this episode.

Well, especially if, if I am Maddy's number one boy, or really whatever affection I have for Maddy as a character-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:10

Yeah

...

Alamo now gets 20% of that affection.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

Touché.

So I don't like how this is breaking out for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:15

It's also...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:16

It's tough for me to watch characters I really like and admire be so stupid.

There's a lot of that this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:21

And there's a lot of that this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:23

Um, also in general on the feed, we are covering Widow's Bay.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:27

We will be covering episodes six and seven, uh, this week, and then every week thereafter till the end of the season.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:33

Uh, so that's something we're doing on the channel.

Also coming up later this week, our look back at Friday Night Lights.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:39

That's right, Texas forever.

Texas forever.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:41

Yeah.

And yet another high school show that we decided, "You know what? Let's just take the opportunity for a loose Euphoria tie-in-"

Joanna RobinsonHost3:47

Sure

... "and say, 'Sure, these things are connected.'"

Joanna RobinsonHost3:48

Another show where people die and you're like, "Huh." [laughs] And that brings us to this episode of Euphoria.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:54

Uh, I'm gonna start with some mail bag questions that we got from folks, uh, over the past week.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:59

Um, so our listener Sam shot their shot and said, "I think Nate's gonna stumble across Alamo's stolen drug money and get his redemption, but I would enjoy it." Sam, tough, tough week for you and your shot call here.

Well, there's a week left.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:15

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:16

So you think Nate, uh, swollen tongue, shambling undead Nate is going to find Alamo's money and, and have a, a redemption arc?

Is this a Frankenstein prequel?

Joanna RobinsonHost4:25

Ooh.

Are we just gonna piece Nate back together in the finale?

Joanna RobinsonHost4:28

We did get, we did get an email about that a couple weeks ago, where they were like, "Are they...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:31

By clipping off pieces of his-"

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost4:33

... "body, are they doing a sort of like a Frankenstein homage," uh-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost4:37

... "in this season of Euphoria?" Do you think that's what's going on here?

Or is Elordi getting into his, like, Tom Hardy, Brad Pitt sort of era, where it's like, "I'm just not gonna show up if you're not gonna ugly me up a little bit," you know? Like-

Joanna RobinsonHost4:48

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:48

Yeah

...

I, I just don't wanna be there in my full power.

And so if I'm not overly swollen from a rattlesnake bite, it's just not worth my time.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:55

This is his 12 Monkeys, is what you're saying.

It really is.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:57

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:57

Clayton wrote in, uh, on behalf of snakes everywhere-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost5:01

[laughs] To talk about the snake in the club, and this is, this pertains to the speech that Bishop gave about the snake in the club in a previous episode.

Snake in the club was, like, my favorite absolute, like, show-stopping club hit of the early 2000s.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:16

Snake in the-

Snake in the club

Joanna RobinsonHost5:17

...

Joanna RobinsonHost5:17

in da club, I think it was, one of those

Well, obviously

Joanna RobinsonHost5:18

... yeah

...

in parentheses in da club.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:20

Um-

Snake in parentheses in da club

Joanna RobinsonHost5:22

...

Joanna RobinsonHost5:23

in da club.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:23

[laughs] Um, how do you feel about the fact that we were waiting for that snake to do something, and it was another snake that killed w- the main charac-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost5:29

... one of the main characters of Euphoria?

The old, the old bait and switch.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:31

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:31

The old snake and s-

The old snake and ladder.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:33

Yeah, absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:34

So Clayton wrote in to say, "Snake owner of a snake similar to the one portrayed.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:38

Theirs is a Burmese python, mine is a nine-inch reticulated python." Tough.

Okay, guy.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:44

[laughs] I also have a four-inch boa constrictor.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:47

This is really why I wrote in to read this email, named Shauna Shipman, who-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost5:51

... a character from Yellowjackets.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:53

[laughs] I think naming your boa constrictor Shauna Shipman is one of the coolest things you can do.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:58

Um, "The sizing you up thing, that's not a thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:00

Snakes are opportunistic.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:01

They don't have the type of brain to plan like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:04

No vet would ever say that.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:05

I know it's TV, but I maybe aud- it made me audibly go 'Ugh.'" So, um, listen, Clayton, I'm curious how you think about the... what you think of the portrayal of rattlesnakes inside of this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:15

Here's a question about that.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:16

I'm just gonna jump ahead to this.

Let's do it

Joanna RobinsonHost6:17

itUh, you know, there's, there's a great Esquire piece out, uh, written by my pal Anthony Breznican about Nate's death.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:25

It went up as soon as the credits rolled.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:26

So Brez talked to Sam Levinson-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost6:29

... and all the people sort of about why this is how Nate went out on Euphoria.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:34

Was it my favorite character death? It was not my favorite character death at all.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:38

But my question is why, why would you show us the snake bite and then have any kind of tension when the coffin is open?

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:48

We know that Nate's dead.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:50

'Cause I don't...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:51

I'm not a Clayton.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:51

I don't know a ton about snakes, but I know if you're in a confined space with a rattlesnake and it bites you during the day-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost6:59

... uh, when your wife and high school girlfriend find you at night, you're dead.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:04

You're already dead.

You're cooked.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:06

So, like, is it interesting to, for us to already know-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost7:09

... that's a dead guy in the ground?

The dramatic irony of like-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:12

Right

...

in particular I would say Maddy is the one who doesn't know, 'cause she has kind of the most at stake here.

She's giving up a lot potentially-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:19

Right, right

... to engineer this whole scenario and pull Alamo into it, and now is kind of like on the hook.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:23

But not to like Sunday Night Live quarterback this episode-

That's, is that not literally what we're doing?

Joanna RobinsonHost7:29

But [laughs] wouldn't it have been interesting for us to watch all of that happen-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:35

... with the tension of like what- Maddy's in danger, what is Alamo gonna do here, what are the Armenians gonna do, while thinking, "And can they still save Nate, and do we even want them to save Nate?" And then they open the box, and he was already dead, and we were like, "Wow, all of this for nothing."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:50

Is it more interesting to know that during the exchange or after the exchange?

I think it's more interesting...

It makes the final exchange more interesting, right?

Joanna RobinsonHost7:56

Mm.

That final standoff, we would be on pins and needles.

Just at the idea that the snake was kind of circling the tube-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:02

Right

... uh, in the vicinity.

Something could've happened, or maybe not.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:04

Like you cut before the snake goes down the tube.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:07

And then we're like, "Oh, no, did a snake get him, or is he still alive down there?"

But by doing it this way, you do get the scene of the snake crawling up Nate.

And it-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:17

It-

It's one of the most excruciating things I've seen on TV in a long time.

Like we in the room were-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:21

I wasn't looking.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:22

[laughs]

It was, it was horrible.

Like it was horrible to watch.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:24

I've actually never seen you flinch that much-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost8:27

... watching something.

Well, it's- it's a double for me.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:29

And, yeah.

One, being buried alive-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:31

Oh, g- yeah

... a horrible fear.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:33

Absolutely.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:33

We're just, we're just piling phobias on top of phobias.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:36

We're in enclosed spaces, and then we added a snake.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:39

Um-

Well, well and this has reached me at my Texan core.

Like a rattlesnake specifically, these are do not fuck around hours-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:46

No

...

if a rattlesnake is involved.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:48

Were you, did you feel threatened as a, as a canonically tall guy about like tall guy in a too small box underground?

I did a little bit.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:54

Yeah.

Yeah, I thought that was an unnecessary shot.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:56

Pointed.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:56

Pointed at you.

Did, wait, so did we get confirmation that they crammed him into a regulation coffin, or did they m- make him a custom on the fly?

Joanna RobinsonHost9:02

I think that's a regulation coffin.

Wow.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:04

Don't you think so?

That's especially uncomfortable.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:06

[laughs]

Now it's my claustrophobia and my being buried alive-

Joanna RobinsonHost9:08

Yeah

... and the snakes?

Joanna RobinsonHost9:09

Yeah.

That's too much.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:10

It's too many things.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:11

All right, uh, we got a great email from a listener who did not sign their name, but their handle is Death by Ostrich.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:17

Great handle.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:18

Um, a really, really good email that I think is actually better than the season of television we're watching-

Wow, okay

Joanna RobinsonHost9:25

...

Joanna RobinsonHost9:25

but I'm going to pitch it to you.

Please.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:27

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:28

This email reads, "The critique of Season 3 that Sam Levinson collapsed the character arcs of Maddy, Cassie, and Rue into instruments of sexual commodification and shock value is missing the point.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:38

This season of, is about the collapse of the American future.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:42

To be clear, the first two seasons were already dark portrayals of American adolescents.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:46

Still, the show framed youth through a kind of intoxicating emotional intensity.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:51

There was still love, the forming of identity, rebellion, and even possibility.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:55

Seasons, Season 3 strips that away.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:57

In this season, the future itself disappears, not only for Cassie, Maddy, Rue, and the rest, but for American youth more broadly." Um, and, and there's much more, which I, which I might circle back to, but I just wanted to check in, um, what you think about that idea of like as we watch these characters-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost10:14

... and their dreams of the future, uh, completely evaporate-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost10:18

... and turn into sort of the worst case scenario for everyone, except perhaps Lexi, but we'll, we'll see.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:25

Um, what do you think about that as an idea of what might be on Euphoria's mind, or is at least could be on viewers' minds?

This is where I have a hard time separating, you know, the times that we live in from is this just an experience that is almost universal among humans.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:39

Right.

Right? Like all of our futures are co-opted by some version of the machine.

The versions that we encounter now, and that I think are being encountered in Euphoria are like maybe especially seedy or out in the open in ways-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:50

Mm

... that they weren't previously.

But hasn't this always been the case? Hasn't the future always been eroding? Hasn't everyone always been like done before they even really got started?

Joanna RobinsonHost10:58

Don't you think it's...

Joanna RobinsonHost10:59

I mean, how many...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:00

I don't know if you're getting served these commencement speech videos that I'm getting served constantly where these, um, clueless CEOs are showing up to commencement-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:09

... uh, commencements to give speeches about how, um, everything you just studied, uh, and learned is useless, and AI is the future, and they're getting booed soundly by the graduating classes.

"So I know you won't have a job after this, but listen."

Joanna RobinsonHost11:21

[laughs]

"Listen to my platitudes."

Joanna RobinsonHost11:23

"What? Why are you booing? I'm right." So, like, um, I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:26

It feels...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:27

I, I would handily give it to the current graduating generation and say-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost11:32

... you know, at least when we graduated-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:35

...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:35

they gave us those platitudes without saying-

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost11:37

... um, "And machines are coming for your jobs," you know?

I wo- I would say in that way maybe we're just all being a little more honest than we ever were before, right? It's like everyone, every worker has always been exploited and manipulated, and now it's like, "Guess what? We're not even gonna pretend to treat you nicely."

Joanna RobinsonHost11:51

Damn the man.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:52

I love that from you, Rob.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:54

This made me think of, you know, we're gonna get...

Joanna RobinsonHost11:56

I'm not done with the mailbag yet, but we are gonna get to sort of the Ali backstory that we get here, which I actually think is not just because I love Colman Domingo, but I think what is being presented there is one of the mo- most interesting thing that's being presented this season.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:10

But his, uh, repeated phrase that he gave to these young people who he was trying to help-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost12:16

... and w- and wound up in his Book of the Dead anyway was, "Trust me-"You hang in there, the future will be bright.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:24

Which could be a commencement speech, uh, if, if you care to think about it that way.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:29

Trust me, you hang in there.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:31

Tough to have that you hang in there be followed by a hanging.

I know.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:34

But, like, you hang in there, the future will be bright.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:36

But, like, that's not true for all of these young people who-

No

Joanna RobinsonHost12:40

... he's trying to reach, and doesn't seem true.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:43

You know, we're gonna talk at the end of this episode about what we, probably throughout this episode, about what we think might happen in the finale.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:49

But sort of is the future bright for anyone on this show?

I, I love that part of Ali's story-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:57

Mm-hmm

... and the kind of reiteration of that idea, 'cause I think the flashback treats it, and the episode treats it, as both this, like, very hopeful thing and also this very delusional thing at the same time.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:06

Yeah.

It's, it's a reminder of, like, who has the luxury of taking the long view?

Joanna RobinsonHost13:09

Right.

And for someone like Ali, who has lived through a lot, who has certainly burned bridges and hurt people and experienced a lot of things, but he's survived at least that part of it and has gotten through to the other side and is now trying to help other people as best he can.

But for so many of these, specifically young men that we see, but other people, I mean, he has a, a book full of dead friends-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:28

Mm-hmm

... full of people that he has helped and helped bury.

And so it's like the idea that you're just gonna say to them, like, "There's, there's h- there's light on the other side of this," I mean, not for them.

You know, maybe for him and his own redemption and his own journey and what he hopes for someone like Rue, but that is a luxury that many of these people could not afford.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:45

It seems, I mean, obviously it is quite ghoulish to speculate about this, but you know, I, I think a lot of people are wondering if we see Ali's book full of names of dead young people who he couldn't help save-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost14:00

... and there's space at the bottom of the page, are we gonna see Rue's name there-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost14:04

... before the show is over? So is Rue's name going in Ali's book of the dead here?

Or is there, is there an open-ended deliberation, right? There's, like, the opening, and he has to decide, like, Rue disappeared.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:15

That's, that was my theory.

Right?

Joanna RobinsonHost14:17

Okay, not to, like...

Joanna RobinsonHost14:18

Again, this is a ghoulish theory, but, like, I like the idea that Rue ends on the homestead, like, that she's gonna make it-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost14:24

... to Jerusalem.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:25

And if she has to do that by pretending to die so that no one can find her, the DEA can't find her, the, uh, uh, various drug dealers who she's pissed off can't find her-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost14:36

... and if she pretends to be dead like Jesus and is risen again, uh, uh, in Jerusalem.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:41

Like, is that, is that what we're watching here? So he writes down her name in the book of the dead because everyone believes her to be dead-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost14:47

...

Joanna RobinsonHost14:47

but actually she lives on in hope, and that might give us the hopeful ending of Euphoria.

I love that idea.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:53

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:54

I got ahead of myself.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost14:55

That's my finale theory.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:57

[laughs]

Well, let's rewind.

W- where do you wanna go to first?

Joanna RobinsonHost14:59

Well, uh, let me just read this last part of this email-

Sure

Joanna RobinsonHost15:00

... that I think was really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:02

So, um, "These characters are no longer simply troubled teenagers, they're economically trapped, spiritually suffocated, and increasingly transactional with one another."

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:12

"Love becomes economic dependency.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:15

Sex and crime become the only labor available." I just thought that was-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:18

... really well observed.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:20

Um, on the religion front, our listener Austin wrote in about the poker game that we saw a while back to note that Rue wins with a full house, which is sevens over sixes.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:31

Three sevens, two sixes.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:33

And Bishop is three sixes over two fives, that's his full house.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:37

Six six six, obviously demonic number.

Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:39

777 is a divine number.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:42

So in a season of television where we're lighting Joshua trees on fire, what do we make...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:49

A- and, and in this episode certainly have, you know, impish demons dancing in hell imagery.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:55

Uh, uh, you know, but they're Nazis, uh, instead.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:58

Same diff.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:59

Um, what do you make of this 777, 666 idea?

This is where I wonder how much is the show actually engaging with the kind of symbology of religion-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:09

Mm-hmm

... and how much of it is Sam Levinson laughing at us as we attempt to wrestle with the symbology of religion? Like, so much of what's happening with Rue right now is, like, the problem I would say with messages from any kind of God, which is if you get to interpret them, they can mean whatever you want them to mean.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:27

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

So Rue has decided this flaming Joshua tree is God speaking to her as he did Moses, saying, like, "Your faith will be rewarded.

Stay the course," et cetera, et cetera.

I think there's probably a lot of misdirection in this season too-

Joanna RobinsonHost16:40

Mm-hmm

... as far as, like, vaguely religious things that we're meant to, like, turn our heads at, but may end up meaning nothing at all, may not have any actual relevance other than we are choosing to assign it relevance.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:50

I, I think that's perfectly valid.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:51

I think, uh, you know, in the preview for next week-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost16:55

... we get a line from Alamo saying, like, "I think you were right, we were destined to meet," to Rue.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:59

So Rue believed that finding Alamo was some sort of divine-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost17:03

... path for her.

As is everything right now.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:06

Right.

The pancakes are divine.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:07

But I do not think that any of us watching this could say this is what any, uh, you know, kindly deity would want for, for Ruby Bennett, to be in Alamo's orbit, for any of these young women that we care about-

Sure

Joanna RobinsonHost17:21

... to be in Alamo's orbit, you know?

Well, you say that, but, like, all religious texts have moments of incredible peril-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:27

Mm-hmm

... of absolutely horrid things happening to mortal people under the guise of, in an Ali-like way, over the long enough timeline, divine blessings for everyone.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:36

Two more things to mention before we, uh, get closer into the episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:39

Uh, Nika King, who plays Rue's mom-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost17:43

... uh, we mentioned how odd we thought that scene was where it's a telephone conversation, we only see one half of it.

Yes, in episode six.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:49

In episode six.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:51

Um, the actress went on, uh, social media to, like, hysterically laugh about it-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:57

... and talk about how she told everyone she was gonna be on Euphoria-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost18:00

...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:00

this week.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:01

She definitely filmed the other half of that phone conversation.

It seems like in its entirety.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:05

And they cut it, and so she was just like, "My mom's here making fun of me 'cause I told-

Roasting her

Joanna RobinsonHost18:09

... everyone, after so many years away, that I was gonna be back on Euphoria, and yet this is all I got."

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost18:14

So Nika King, we celebrate you.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:18

Um, on the contract info front, I, I do not think at this point Cassie's contract is gonna come into play.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:23

That was a theory that I had, that she signed-

What if the finale is all about Drill House?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:26

Contract law?

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:27

Yeah, absolutely.

Just, just straight up how do we get her back into the influencer mind?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:31

But you were right.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:32

Uh, a lot of lawyers wrote it.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:33

Many lawyers listen to this show for some reason.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:35

[laughs] Hope you're tuning in live.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:37

Um-They wrote in to let us know what you already said, which is you can sign a contract with an X.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:43

It doesn't-

You can put a paw print on that thing if you want

Joanna RobinsonHost18:45

... yeah, it doesn't matter what you sign it with, it matters when you signed it.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:48

And if Drill House can prove that Cassie signed the...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:51

But I really don't think the Drill House-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost18:53

I, I will be astonished if the Drill House contract has anything to do with the finale.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:58

Um, and la- last but not least, in that Esquire article, uh, that I mentioned, uh, written by my pal Anthony Breznican, just drops the nugget that Jason Reitman, uh, a, a renowned nepo baby in his own right-

Sure

Joanna RobinsonHost19:12

... uh, is the second unit director on Euphoria this season.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:15

Just like a legit film director is, has shown up to be the second unit director of Euphoria this season.

I mean, why not? If you can, why not?

Joanna RobinsonHost19:23

The-

Where are you on Jason Reitman?

Joanna RobinsonHost19:26

Up in the air.

Hey.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost19:29

Hey.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:31

[laughs] Um-

Come on, Joe

Joanna RobinsonHost19:33

... we're live, baby.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost19:34

Um, specifically, Brez noted that, uh, Jason Reitman shot, um, the scene where Cassie is denigrating some guy's dick-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:44

... right?

The Polaroids.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:46

The Polaroids.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:47

And she says, "Sammy," and they shot it that way to, like, make fun of Sam Levinson.

Wow.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:52

That's an Easter egg to make fun of Sam Levinson, and he was gonna have Sydney Sweeney ADR it and change it to Jason, but he ran out of time, and so Sammy just stayed-

Just stayed in there [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost20:01

... stayed in the edit, so there it is.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:03

Um, all right, episode seven, Rain or Shine, Natasha Lyonne has shown up to play hooker.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:11

No name.

We actually had-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:12

There she is

... we had a little bit of a betting pool.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:14

Yeah.

And I had, I had thrown out-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:15

[laughs]

... what if she plays God?

Joanna RobinsonHost20:16

What if she still plays God?

I mean, she might, but guess what? She's just another sex worker on this show-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:21

[laughs]

... full of sex workers.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:22

I, I...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:22

Maybe God is with us in a motel six.

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:24

You know? Um, I think the wrist brace on her was like my favorite, uh, detail.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:30

Very bizarre use of Natasha Lyonne.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:32

But here's what I really love.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:34

I mean, there's a lot I didn't love necessarily about the Ali flashback, but here's what I loved.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:39

Ali is a character we really love-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost20:43

... and respect and admire, and he has been honest with Rue about the things he has done, and he even, in season two, you know, she provoked him-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost20:54

... to the point where he almost seemed like he was gonna hit her.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:57

You know? And so, like, we know that there is this existed inside of Ali.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:01

It is different for us to watch him, like, with his two young daughters at the table, and then hear him, you know, uh, beat his wife-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost21:10

...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:10

in the next room.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:12

So to take this character who has done the work to, to walk the path of redemption, to try to do good in this world, and have to confront how dark it actually was for him before that-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost21:25

...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:26

I, I think what that sets up, for me at least, is when we ask the question of Euphoria, who deserves redemption, I think Ali is a really interesting case for us to think about.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:36

Like, does Rue, when w- uh, as Rue discovers, a little late Rue, inside of this episode, that she is, uh, involved in sex trafficking-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost21:46

... and the disappearance of Angel, and all this sort of stuff like that, and, and Ali asks her, "Do you ever think about the people-"

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost21:52

... "who took the fentanyl that you sm- smuggled?" And stuff like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:54

As Rue continues to confront the reality of, of her self-described evil that she has done, does she still deserve redemption and Jerusalem and the homestead at the, at the end of the story?

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:06

What do you think about that?

I mean, she's kind of fast-forwarded past the reckoning part.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:09

Mm.

And she's just like, "This sucks, and I want something that's not this, so maybe I can find a salvation in this life or the next."

Joanna RobinsonHost22:16

Right.

But I love that Ali plays that role in her life, of like one of the very few people who is not pu- not...

He's not really judgmental.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:24

Mm-hmm.

Like, he's very straightforward with her about what she does and her behavior and what it entails-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:28

Mm-hmm

... and what the repercussions of it are, in a way that's very different from, like, the way Lexi talks to Rue in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:33

Right.

You know, it is, it is very straight and very honest, but ultimately not something that is coming down with a verdict.

And I think Rue needs some of that right now because she has not levied any of that introspection, that it seems like Ali, and that we see in the course of this flashback, has, like, really carried him through his life.

Like, I, I'm with you that seeing, seeing some of that darkness, and us as an audience reckoning with a character that we like to watch on screen-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:57

Right

... and has been an instrument for good within whatever Euphoria can be, seeing the darkest sides of him, I think is good for everybody involved, including us.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:06

It was interesting because I, uh, you know, I was doing one of my favorite post-episode activities, which is poking around the subreddit, and a lot of people are like, "Oh, fuck Ali.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:13

I can't believe I ever rooted for him." And I was like, that's kind of the point of, partially the point of Euphoria-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost23:19

... is forcing you to confront...

Joanna RobinsonHost23:21

You know, I, I think i- in the best episode of Euphoria, which is Rue's complete, like, breakdown in season two, confronting the absolute ugliness of addict behavior, but are we still rooting for Rue-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost23:37

... at the end of the day? We are.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:38

And am I still rooting for Ali at the end of the day? I am, and that's what this- That's what a lot of good television does, which is f- is challenging you to empathize-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost23:48

... with people who have done things that repulse you.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:51

You know?

And I w- I would say especially Rue-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:53

Mm

... because she's still in a point in her life where so many of the worst things she's done, she hasn't really, like, atoned for or measured up to in any meaningful way, and so many of the, so many of the things she's done were just, like, lie, cheat, steal, as she's talking about with Laurie and her crew in this episode, in the name of the next fix.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:09

Mm-hmm.

It was just like a period of her life was just on a treadmill of, like, how do you get to the next hookup from something? And this is...

Like, she's now at a point where everything is slowing down.

She's maybe even getting, like taking, starting to take some things for granted in terms of, like, throwing around the DEA and assuming she's in the clear and that she has this, like, uh, you know, protection from on high.

But at least there is a moment here for her to consider something other than where the next high is gonna come from.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:37

Yeah.

And, and one would hope within that, like, a way to fully understand, hey, so you've been-... moving fentanyl from one place to another for a really long time now, as Ali mentions, don't you think that maybe, like, literally somebody, at least some people died from this?

Joanna RobinsonHost24:51

So for you, Rob, in the 93-minute finale that we're getting next week, and this- we should say this was an 80-minute-

It was

Joanna RobinsonHost24:57

... penultimate episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:59

But in the 93-minute finale, and, uh, our producer Kai noted very, uh, emphatically it says season finale, not series finale-

It does indeed

Joanna RobinsonHost25:07

... uh, on the trailer for next week.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:09

Interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:09

But in- you need to see Rue really reckon with what she's done.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:17

Is that what you're saying or no?

I don't know if the action-packed nature of where the season is-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:23

Mm

... is going to lend itself to that too much.

Then again, this is a show that, like, in the middle of a climactic resolution can go to a, a church mind palace, so may- like, maybe that is ahead of us in some way.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:35

You're n- you're never gonna get over the musical number, and it was just absolutely great.

I'm simply not.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost25:39

But someday you'll recognize that-

I'm simply not

Joanna RobinsonHost25:40

...

Joanna RobinsonHost25:40

it was absolutely great.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:42

I also wouldn't be surprised if, you know, it seems like Rue dies one way or another, and then we get her on the homestead ending-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost25:50

... and it's one of those, like, season finale open endings of you can decide whether Rue herself-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost25:55

... physically made it to the homestead or if sh- this is, like, the afterlife.

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:59

You know?

Do you think we get, like, a-

Joanna RobinsonHost26:01

The, the church at the end of Lost

... a graduate style, like, totally neutral facial expression that you have to read for yourself as far as, like, where she has ended up emotionally?

Joanna RobinsonHost26:10

Can- one can only hope.

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Joanna RobinsonHost27:13

Rob, why is the ambulance bugged, um, this ambulance that's doing a run down to Mexico?

You know it's a great question.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:20

Is someone else working for the DEA, or are they able to bug the ambulance because of the evidence they already got? Like, they needed Rue on the phone to get certain-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost27:28

... certain evidence maybe to get a warrant to be able to-

To t- yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost27:32

... bug Laurie's property, bug Alamo's property-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost27:34

... bug the ambulance.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:35

Does that sound right to you?

But how literally did they do it?

Joanna RobinsonHost27:38

I, oh, I don't know.

The, like, that mechanism, I don't...

I mean, we certainly don't see Rue, like, planting a bug at any point, but-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:45

Yeah

...

I'm guessing that's cinematic convenience.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:47

Sounds great.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:49

Um, Nate's death, I just, I just wanna go here next.

Let's, let's just hit it-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:54

Okay

... right up top.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:54

Jacob Elordi, you're free.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:55

You're done.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:57

Godspeed.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:58

Um-

But what will his brand partners think, you know?

Joanna RobinsonHost28:01

[laughs]

The luxury...

He couldn't be buried with a luxury bag?

Joanna RobinsonHost28:04

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:05

Made of snakeskin perhaps?

Right?

Joanna RobinsonHost28:07

Wow, interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:08

Um, listen, all right.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:11

Here's what, uh, Sam Levinson was trying to achieve with that as told to Esquire.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:17

"There's this kinda funny thing where I know what the audience wants in terms of justice or karma, and with that in mind, I always think, 'Well, how can I give it to them? How can I give them what they want, but make it so horrific and anxiety-inducing that by the time it happens, the audience isn't so sure that they wanted it?'" Um, [laughs] so-

Do I...

So how do you feel about that based on your ch- like, choice of voice as you read that quote? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost28:40

[laughs] I mean, Sam Levinson's whole thing, uh, he doesn't describe himself this way, but it seems to be his whole thing is he wants to provoke.

Sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:48

Like, he's trying to provoke reactions.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:50

He enjoys when people get, like, agitated about Euphoria, and whether that's positively agitated or negatively agitated-

Yeah, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost28:57

...

Joanna RobinsonHost28:57

it is people engaging in the art that he's making.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:01

So that is his goal.

Well, let me say this: I think the, that quote, that idea is a great idea.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:06

I don't know that it was executed well here.

I don't think it was executed well because I haven't felt anything about Nate Jacobs in four calendar years.

Like, he's been so functionally irrelevant to this season.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:18

Well, that's not true 'cause you just watched season two-

Well, sure

Joanna RobinsonHost29:19

... of Euphoria.

But-

Joanna RobinsonHost29:20

Yeah

...

in theory-

Joanna RobinsonHost29:21

Yes

...

if, if I were a normal watcher-

Joanna RobinsonHost29:23

If you had watched-

... of this show

Joanna RobinsonHost29:23

... season two of Euphoria when it aired-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost29:25

... you would be like, "Who is this pod person Nate Jacobs this season?" I really agree.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:29

Like, if Nate had been behaving like himself, if he had had a plot that was more in line with what we saw in season two-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost29:37

...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:37

I'd be like, "Yeah, get him, snake," and then, "Oh, no, maybe not like this."

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost29:41

You know, like, maybe I would've gone through that whole thing.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:43

But as it was, yes, we had a visceral reaction to this.

Oh, for sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:46

As soon as the snake went down the pipe, I, like, sort of-

That part is undeniably effective

Joanna RobinsonHost29:50

...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:50

I, like, turned away from the...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:51

But I wasn't like...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:53

I was like, "Oh, no, not like this" only because it felt, like, kind of dramatically inert to me-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost29:57

... for Nate to just die in a box via snake, you know?

I, I genuinely had, like, no emotional reaction to Nate dying.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:02

Yeah.

Only a physical reaction to the snake.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:04

And feeling kind of, like, you know, nice, nice for you, Jacob Elordi.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:09

[laughs] You're done.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:11

I don't know.

The sweet release of death.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:12

Yeah, there you go.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:13

Anything else you wanna say about...

Joanna RobinsonHost30:15

Uh, did you enjoy seeing his dumb brother one last time?

I did, but that was another, like, did you really have to have the dumb brother kicking around?

Joanna RobinsonHost30:22

[laughs]

Like, almost in earshot-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:23

Right

...

but not quite, and Nate's, like, kind of unconscious until it's too late.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:26

Mm-hmm.

It's like, we really didn't need that.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:28

I agree.

You know what we did need, though? I mean, Nate really needed to train with Pai Mei.

Like, how do you not do...

Uh, does Kill Bill not exist in this universe? Has, has-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:36

Oh, Kill Bill definitely exists in this universe.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:39

[laughs]

[laughs]Well then what's Nate doing? He didn't even attempt it.

He should have some bloody knuckles at, at bare minimum.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:45

Were you thinking most of, of the bride when you were watching this?

I mean, that's where I go first.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:49

Okay.

In terms of a successful escape from a coffin burial-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:51

Okay

... do you have another touchpoint?

Joanna RobinsonHost30:53

Uh, did not Ryan Reynolds get buried also-

In Buried

Joanna RobinsonHost30:55

... canonically? [laughs]

I'm gonna be honest, don't know how it ended.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:58

I also don't know how that ended.

I'm not just showing up for Ryan Reynolds movies.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:00

Um, I was thinking also about the bride and, uh, I think it's Rue had the yellow sweatshirt on inside of this episode-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost31:06

... right? So always thinking about the bride and with yellow, uh, leisure wear.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:10

Lexi's role in this episode-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost31:12

... is to, uh...

Joanna RobinsonHost31:14

Listen, I was mostly on Lexi's side in that scene when she's just like, "I'm trying to get some writing done," and Rue-

I am on deadline

Joanna RobinsonHost31:20

... you and I both were like-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost31:22

... we've been there when s- [laughs] You were like, "Joanna, this is why we prep in separate rooms now for Euphoria,"

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost31:28

"So you won't yammer me about Nepo babies-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost31:30

...

Joanna RobinsonHost31:30

while I'm trying to prepare." Um, so I was as a writer empathetic to Lexi.

Of course.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:36

And then she took it, uh, to a, a tough place, you know?

To a couple tough places.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:42

Like, here's the deal.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:44

Lexi, Lexi is being very kind to Rue.

Joanna RobinsonHost31:47

"You can crash on my couch any time, Rue."