In the Grip of a Foreign Power: Eli Clifton and Ian Lustick on Israel's Lobby and U.S. Democracy

You know, I guess to kind of help folks understand what we're talking about here today, what is the Israeli Lobby?

Well, first of all, we don't call it the Israeli lobby.

We call it Israel's lobby because most of the people in it, and this is important, are not Israelis.

They're Americans.

And that gives them access to the American electoral system through financial contributions that foreign lobbies don't have.

So what we're talking about is a lobby that is guided by and does everything it can to match the preferences and policies of the Israeli government.

but it is not an Israeli lobby, it's Israel's lobby in America.

A panoply of hundreds of organizations and also many individuals that form a network that over time have been able to exercise a hammerlock on American foreign policy toward the Middle East, and particularly toward the Arab-Israeli conflict, and particularly toward Israel itself.

So we're not talking, and that's what's important, we're not talking about a Jewish lobby.

Many, if not most, of the people active in the Israel lobby are Jewish, but certainly not all of them, and neither are all the organizations involved.

There are prominent Christian organizations involved.

So that's very important for people to understand.

We're not talking about American Jews here.

The American Jews are divided very deeply about Israel and about the things that the lobby actually advocates for.

I want to underscore one thing that Ayan said, which is that we frequently, and as well we should, get asked the question of, well, what about the Qatari lobby? What about the Emirati lobby? What about the Saudis? What about the Chinese? Because when you look at the total sums of money being spent, they are big spenders, to be very clear.

But I think it's extremely important that we recognize that the money being spent, it's not equal dollar for dollar, because Israel's lobby has access to levers of influence that these other countries do not have, precisely for the reasons that Ayan laid out, that these are largely Americans doing it.

And that means that they can direct money into our campaign finance system, which is probably one of the most direct means of influencing our politics, influencing our elected leaders, influencing who becomes one of our elected leaders.

And that is something that no other country really has the same degree of access and influence as the pro-Israel lobby inside the United States.

You know, inevitably, whenever you talk about Israel's lobby, you get the pushback that it feeds into these anti-Semitic tropes, right, of secret Jewish organizations working behind the scenes to pull the strings of influence and power.

How do you guys make the case that what you're doing here is different than feeding into those tropes, yet still important?

Well, first of all, I think it does feed into those tropes.

Some of the truth does, and that's the terrible thing about it.

It's a very bad look to have nine, I think they're all Jewish billionaires, giving $1.7 billion into the American electoral system for Israel purposes just between 2012 and 2024.

I mean, that is incredible.

And that's not a good look.

You know, I guess to kind of help folks understand what we're talking about here today, what is the Israeli Lobby?

Well, first of all, we don't call it the Israeli lobby.

We call it Israel's lobby because most of the people in it, and this is important, are not Israelis.

They're Americans.

And that gives them access to the American electoral system through financial contributions that foreign lobbies don't have.

So what we're talking about is a lobby that is guided by and does everything it can to match the preferences and policies of the Israeli government.

but it is not an Israeli lobby, it's Israel's lobby in America.

A panoply of hundreds of organizations and also many individuals that form a network that over time have been able to exercise a hammerlock on American foreign policy toward the Middle East, and particularly toward the Arab-Israeli conflict, and particularly toward Israel itself.

So we're not talking, and that's what's important, we're not talking about a Jewish lobby.

Many, if not most, of the people active in the Israel lobby are Jewish, but certainly not all of them, and neither are all the organizations involved.

There are prominent Christian organizations involved.

So that's very important for people to understand.

We're not talking about American Jews here.

The American Jews are divided very deeply about Israel and about the things that the lobby actually advocates for.

I want to underscore one thing that Ayan said, which is that we frequently, and as well we should, get asked the question of, well, what about the Qatari lobby? What about the Emirati lobby? What about the Saudis? What about the Chinese? Because when you look at the total sums of money being spent, they are big spenders, to be very clear.

But I think it's extremely important that we recognize that the money being spent, it's not equal dollar for dollar, because Israel's lobby has access to levers of influence that these other countries do not have, precisely for the reasons that Ayan laid out, that these are largely Americans doing it.

And that means that they can direct money into our campaign finance system, which is probably one of the most direct means of influencing our politics, influencing our elected leaders, influencing who becomes one of our elected leaders.

And that is something that no other country really has the same degree of access and influence as the pro-Israel lobby inside the United States.

You know, inevitably, whenever you talk about Israel's lobby, you get the pushback that it feeds into these anti-Semitic tropes, right, of secret Jewish organizations working behind the scenes to pull the strings of influence and power.

How do you guys make the case that what you're doing here is different than feeding into those tropes, yet still important?

Well, first of all, I think it does feed into those tropes.

Some of the truth does, and that's the terrible thing about it.

It's a very bad look to have nine, I think they're all Jewish billionaires, giving $1.7 billion into the American electoral system for Israel purposes just between 2012 and 2024.

I mean, that is incredible.

And that's not a good look.