The Five Cures of Therese Neumann

Mm.

Absolutely.

And I suppose there are a couple of aspects that are interesting when you look at it through the Strange Familiars lens as well.

The other thing is the time aspect.

So ecstatic vision, um, particularly of events that seem to have taken place in what we would call the linear past, uh, and also vision of the future, linear future, allows us to recognize that someone who steps into this ecstatic place is beyond time-

Mm

... and is in some way experiencing a timelessness, so that the, the world of spirit, the world of the ecstatic, just as much as the world of the UFO or the fairy or whatever else, seems to exist in a, in a way that, [clears throat] that, that isn't akin to, to our perception of, of linear time.

And also, we would say, obviously coming out of the traditions perspective, that anything that took place within the life of Christ, which is a his- the life of a historical person, okay, if you, if you admit that, that, that means then if you could go back in time, you would find him on a particular day in a particular place.

But the tradition goes further and says, "But this individual was also divine," and so every act of that divine person has not just an eternal significance, but is actually happening in the eternal now.

And so that means that for those like Therese, if we, if we presume that she is, um, genuine, and we can talk about all of that, the, the controversy about her later, but if we presume that she's genuine, then in some way her entering into the ecstatic state allows access, at least at a human level, and probably mediated through her own psychology, but into that eternal now.

And as we'll see, that, that even becomes a state that she is able to share with others at times as well.

So it's, it's absolutely fascinating, and I think we have a lot of conversation around, uh, if only the UFO people would listen to the fairy people, and if only the Sasquatch people would listen to the UFO people.

And there's also a certain sense of if only the people engaged in parapsychology would also take into account mysticism-

Yes

... of the, of all of the traditions.

Yeah.

Um, so from, from that perspective, when we begin to get all of these people in a room together, you know, talking together, um, there's an awful lot of what C.S. Lewis famously called the OU2 phenomena, which is, you know, uh, what we often think of as being our own is something that we discover is ubiquitous, perhaps in slightly different ways and with different flavors and all of that kind of stuff.

But it at least experience...

it, it can be experienced in the same way.

And often, I'm just reading the, the journals of Jacques Vallée at the moment, and it's really interesting to see how often he speaks of the UFO experience as being essentially an ecstatic experience-

Mm

... i- in the technical sense of ecstasy, which doesn't necessarily include happiness-

Right

...

but includes a, a being outside of time and space as we would, we would speak to it.