Sep 21, 2026 · 2 hr 4 min · 20 segments
Katarina Szulc is a Canadian investigative journalist based in Mexico, known for her on-the-ground reporting on cartel violence, organized crime, political corruption, and security issues. After…
Katarina SzulcGuest
Shawn RyanHost
Well, that's interesting you bring switching sides up 'cause that's, that's where I wanted to go with this.
How, how often are you seeing power exchange in Mexico, but from, from prominent cartel to prominent cartel?
And so what I wanna know is how are they, how are they navigating that? How are politicians down there who are for sale, which sounds like it's pretty much all of them, not unlike the U.S.-
Uh, I mean, how do they know when to switch sides? Or are they getting killed all the time? Because that can be a, obviously a very tricky game, especially, I mean, if prominent cartel gets taken over by another cartel, and then this one comes back.
I think last time I was on your podcast, I said, "This guy is the most corrupt motherfucker ever," and he was just indicted by the U.S. a couple months ago.
Um, this is someone who has had a very strong alliance with the Chapitos faction of the Sinaloa cartel with El Chapo.
Um, and he has been profiting off of it for a long time openly at the cost of the people in that state.
Now, to kind of paint you a picture, he was having a sort of dispute with a state legislator in Sinaloa.
This was right before El Mayo was captured, and this was kind of part of the whole, uh, bigger picture of how the Sinaloa cartel or how El Chapo's faction at least and his family are gonna move forward and be protected.
When he gets there, he allegedly gets beaten up, and then he ends up on that small aircraft that lands him, uh, in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, where he's taken in by the FBI.
Rocha Moya walked out of that meeting alive and continued to be governor of Sinaloa.
Well, that's interesting you bring switching sides up 'cause that's, that's where I wanted to go with this.
How, how often are you seeing power exchange in Mexico, but from, from prominent cartel to prominent cartel?
And so what I wanna know is how are they, how are they navigating that? How are politicians down there who are for sale, which sounds like it's pretty much all of them, not unlike the U.S.-
Uh, I mean, how do they know when to switch sides? Or are they getting killed all the time? Because that can be a, obviously a very tricky game, especially, I mean, if prominent cartel gets taken over by another cartel, and then this one comes back.
I think last time I was on your podcast, I said, "This guy is the most corrupt motherfucker ever," and he was just indicted by the U.S. a couple months ago.
Um, this is someone who has had a very strong alliance with the Chapitos faction of the Sinaloa cartel with El Chapo.
Um, and he has been profiting off of it for a long time openly at the cost of the people in that state.
Now, to kind of paint you a picture, he was having a sort of dispute with a state legislator in Sinaloa.
This was right before El Mayo was captured, and this was kind of part of the whole, uh, bigger picture of how the Sinaloa cartel or how El Chapo's faction at least and his family are gonna move forward and be protected.
When he gets there, he allegedly gets beaten up, and then he ends up on that small aircraft that lands him, uh, in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, where he's taken in by the FBI.
Rocha Moya walked out of that meeting alive and continued to be governor of Sinaloa.
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