KJ's Dr. William Major Memorial Advanced Shiur in Talmud with Rabbi Dr. Jeremy Wieder

Yeah, making

the same argument about a parak, or that's not strong enough.

You don't want to end the parak.

I don't think you generally find, you know, if I were to search for an analog, but I don't think it applies to the Mishnah, openings of Mesestas, Gemara, very often have an elaborate construction of a sujya.

These sujyas tend to be very late.

They're generally assumed to be rabban and sabarai, and one of the functions they have is summarizing, in effect, what's to come.

When you look at many, the most famous one that people know of is the opening sujya fidushin.

It's famous because Sri Radon identifies it as rabban and sabarai.

The Gemara wants to know why does it say lat lakikha versus kana.

Why is it shalosh drachim, shalosh drachim derech? The word derech in Hebrew can be masculine, it can be feminine, nothing of true halakhic import, but the suya does capture certain important ideas that will be later explicated in the Masechta.

You have such things, and occasionally you have it even in a context where it's not the first paragraph of the Masechta.

Most famously, perhaps, is the opening suya of the tenth parakeet of the Vemasa, Isha Rava, which I think is also what we call a Sudyat Keticha.

It's an opening, like an opening lecture, and it knows the conclusions of everything coming, a lot of things coming down the line.

But I don't know of an analog in the Mishnah.

For the Mishnahis that I'm aware of, these things tend to happen at the end of Mosef, and even more so at the end of a Seder, the end of an entire order.

To find it at the end of a parakeet, I think, is... a little bit arbitrary.

Now, of course, Larry, the grace is a different question.

It's one where the Mishnah is divided up into chapters.

And the

answer is that at least by the time of Rabbah, for sure, there were chapter divisions.

I can't prove to you that they're identical to ours, because in Marah in Hamafkid, where Rabbah says something, he says, which means at least Hamathid was the beginning of each chapter of Baphometzia, or of the Seder in Ezekiel, in the fourth generation of Moriah.

There are places in Shastra that I've encountered where I wonder about the parakavisions, whether it's the original intent.

This was like, they ended up being shy, and Kisah, Kisah, this is all adding later, or what?

Yes, it's Ravan and Savorai.

Shurah says that that Surya is Ravan and Savorai.

Yeah, making

the same argument about a parak, or that's not strong enough.

You don't want to end the parak.

I don't think you generally find, you know, if I were to search for an analog, but I don't think it applies to the Mishnah, openings of Mesestas, Gemara, very often have an elaborate construction of a sujya.

These sujyas tend to be very late.

They're generally assumed to be rabban and sabarai, and one of the functions they have is summarizing, in effect, what's to come.

When you look at many, the most famous one that people know of is the opening sujya fidushin.

It's famous because Sri Radon identifies it as rabban and sabarai.

The Gemara wants to know why does it say lat lakikha versus kana.

Why is it shalosh drachim, shalosh drachim derech? The word derech in Hebrew can be masculine, it can be feminine, nothing of true halakhic import, but the suya does capture certain important ideas that will be later explicated in the Masechta.

You have such things, and occasionally you have it even in a context where it's not the first paragraph of the Masechta.

Most famously, perhaps, is the opening suya of the tenth parakeet of the Vemasa, Isha Rava, which I think is also what we call a Sudyat Keticha.

It's an opening, like an opening lecture, and it knows the conclusions of everything coming, a lot of things coming down the line.

But I don't know of an analog in the Mishnah.

For the Mishnahis that I'm aware of, these things tend to happen at the end of Mosef, and even more so at the end of a Seder, the end of an entire order.

To find it at the end of a parakeet, I think, is... a little bit arbitrary.

Now, of course, Larry, the grace is a different question.

It's one where the Mishnah is divided up into chapters.

And the

answer is that at least by the time of Rabbah, for sure, there were chapter divisions.

I can't prove to you that they're identical to ours, because in Marah in Hamafkid, where Rabbah says something, he says, which means at least Hamathid was the beginning of each chapter of Baphometzia, or of the Seder in Ezekiel, in the fourth generation of Moriah.

There are places in Shastra that I've encountered where I wonder about the parakavisions, whether it's the original intent.

This was like, they ended up being shy, and Kisah, Kisah, this is all adding later, or what?

Yes, it's Ravan and Savorai.

Shurah says that that Surya is Ravan and Savorai.