Sep 10, 2026 · 1 hr 5 min · 14 segments
As the federal government and states crack down on some kratom products, Mac Haddow joins ‘Untold’ to talk regulation, science, and why he feels passionately that the natural leaf form of the…
Mac HaddowGuestKatie BeckHostWhat exactly... do you think is the conspiracy or is the organized anti-Kratom mission? I mean, what is it in your mind that those people who are claiming this to be dangerous are conspiring to do?
You've got a couple of participants and interesting characters involved in this.
You have medical examiners across the country who, when they do a tox screen and they see metrogenine, they call it a kratom death.
Even the NMS Labs, which is the largest forensic toxicologist firm in the country, just put out a blog post saying, we can't do that anymore.
If you detect metrogenine and you then call it a kratom death, that's bad science, but that's what the medical examiners are doing, and we've proven it over and over now, and MS Labs is agreeing, because we've looked at the tox screens that are available.
And then you have the trial attorneys who are funding these anti-Kratom groups, and they get them very active.
One trial attorney offered the Kratom Danger Awareness Group a million dollars to do advocacy work on this.
And then you have the addiction recovery centers, which I think is a fascinating thing.
They see that if they are treating addicts, and they are, and they do great work, by the way, there is a threat to their businesses because the opioid addiction crisis is being addressed by public policymakers.
What exactly... do you think is the conspiracy or is the organized anti-Kratom mission? I mean, what is it in your mind that those people who are claiming this to be dangerous are conspiring to do?
You've got a couple of participants and interesting characters involved in this.
You have medical examiners across the country who, when they do a tox screen and they see metrogenine, they call it a kratom death.
Even the NMS Labs, which is the largest forensic toxicologist firm in the country, just put out a blog post saying, we can't do that anymore.
If you detect metrogenine and you then call it a kratom death, that's bad science, but that's what the medical examiners are doing, and we've proven it over and over now, and MS Labs is agreeing, because we've looked at the tox screens that are available.
And then you have the trial attorneys who are funding these anti-Kratom groups, and they get them very active.
One trial attorney offered the Kratom Danger Awareness Group a million dollars to do advocacy work on this.
And then you have the addiction recovery centers, which I think is a fascinating thing.
They see that if they are treating addicts, and they are, and they do great work, by the way, there is a threat to their businesses because the opioid addiction crisis is being addressed by public policymakers.
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