Sep 15, 2026 · 1 hr 30 min · 13 segments
⚠️ Content Warning: This episode contains adult subject matter and other content that may be disturbing to listeners, including grief and personal loss. Listener discretion is advised. **John Ray**…
Mike RuschHostMonicaHost
And I want to root this question in your idea of this idea we're going to belong first, right? So that'd be the framework which I carry into this question.
You made some decisions about what you would be maybe for and maybe what you would be against.
So, as I read the Christian Gospels, as I read the story of Jesus, as much as I can, and I cannot read them objectively, nobody can, but within my subjective view of reading the Gospels, I see Jesus as this radically, this person who is personifying the heart of God through radical change and freedom.
And so we at Vine and Branch believe, We take stands on issues, but it's not because we're not defined by what we're against.
When you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else, right? But it's a very different posture to start from no than it is to start from yes.
It's a very different posture to define yourself by what you're against versus what you're for.
And so we try to develop and practice this beautiful idea of the kingdom of God as this place of radical inclusion, of incredible freedom, of healing.
And of course, there are things that are excluded from that experience that we have to take a stand against.
But the posture of it and the experience of it is a very different way, I think, than what we see a lot in the world right now.
I mean, John, during this time, as you talk about making these decisions, maybe having hope in what the church would do, maybe not fully doing that, or some people not fully doing that.
I'm curious, as you look back on that time, what do you think, what was the powers at play? What was happening? What was the...
I hear this conversation within the church, but you also mentioned like people not wanting to deal with the mess of it, right? People not wanting to explain to their neighbors.
Like we are so, most of us are so unaware of the cultural forces that are constantly forming our decisions, right? And within the American, 21st century American context, especially here in the American South, white Christian nationalism, and I know that's a loaded word and a loaded term.
And I want to root this question in your idea of this idea we're going to belong first, right? So that'd be the framework which I carry into this question.
You made some decisions about what you would be maybe for and maybe what you would be against.
So, as I read the Christian Gospels, as I read the story of Jesus, as much as I can, and I cannot read them objectively, nobody can, but within my subjective view of reading the Gospels, I see Jesus as this radically, this person who is personifying the heart of God through radical change and freedom.
And so we at Vine and Branch believe, We take stands on issues, but it's not because we're not defined by what we're against.
When you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else, right? But it's a very different posture to start from no than it is to start from yes.
It's a very different posture to define yourself by what you're against versus what you're for.
And so we try to develop and practice this beautiful idea of the kingdom of God as this place of radical inclusion, of incredible freedom, of healing.
And of course, there are things that are excluded from that experience that we have to take a stand against.
But the posture of it and the experience of it is a very different way, I think, than what we see a lot in the world right now.
I mean, John, during this time, as you talk about making these decisions, maybe having hope in what the church would do, maybe not fully doing that, or some people not fully doing that.
I'm curious, as you look back on that time, what do you think, what was the powers at play? What was happening? What was the...
I hear this conversation within the church, but you also mentioned like people not wanting to deal with the mess of it, right? People not wanting to explain to their neighbors.
Like we are so, most of us are so unaware of the cultural forces that are constantly forming our decisions, right? And within the American, 21st century American context, especially here in the American South, white Christian nationalism, and I know that's a loaded word and a loaded term.
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