577. Is Badenoch Finally Stopping Farage and Why Are French Schools on Fire?

It's an absolute pleasure, Alistair, and, uh, I, I know that I can't live up to the standards set by Rory of reasonableness, and I know that we're going to disagree, but I will do my best to make sure that it's agreeable.

Um, and the first thing that I would have to say is that I agree with your broad analysis.

I think that the introduction that you set is absolutely correct, that both the principal parties have, over the last two years, faced pesky insurgents who've been energized and who've been successful in eating away at the, at the votes, the core votes of both Labour and Tory.

But for the reasons that you've outlined, the Greens, uh, being in hawk to a particular, uh, group within the party who've elevated Palestine over other issues, and with Reform, because of the scandals that have hit their leadership and the, uh, the splits that that's exposed, both of those parties have had difficult summers, and that's given the Conservatives, in particular, a sense that they're back in the game.

But while the Conservatives, you're absolutely right, are united behind Kemi Badenoch, they still remain

remainAnchored at around twenty percent in the polls.

And this week there was a very sobering message from John Curtis, the polling guru, who, uh, said to the not quite exuberant, but certainly, uh, more confident Tory grassroots, that their polling position was exactly the same as the twenty twenty-four election.

And of course, that was the election that resulted in the most humiliating defeat that my party ever endured, and one which saw my own seat fall to the Liberal Democrats, and my Lib Dem successor-

Yeah

... secure a five and a half thousand majority.

Now, I want to come back to the, to the Tories, and in particular, this very long essay that Kemi Badenoch has written, which I read yesterday, The Right Way, as it's called.

Mm.

But I just want to first of all ask you about your impressions of Labour, because you were at Liverpool.

Yes.

I just wondered, first of all, how weird that is for you to be at the Labour Party conference, what your impressions were, and what you think the big change has been from Starmer to Burnham?

Well, the key thing about governing party conferences is that there's an eerie similarity to them.

So I don't want to dishearten those people who are encouraged by Andy Burnham's arrival by saying that I felt quite at home, um, because [chuckles] the, the corporate lobbyists, uh, the NGOs, the charities, uh, they're out in force.

So in that sense, there was an element of being reminded of what it was like when the conservatives were in government.

It has that complexion.

However, the big difference is not so much between Labour and Conservative, but between Labour last year and Labour this year.

Last year, there was a sense, if not of despair, of uncertainty.

So there was a willingness on the part of the grassroots to give Keir Starmer more time to prove that he could be the leader that they'd hoped, but also a sense of deep anxiety that despite the successful twenty twenty-four election victory, that Labour wasn't doing anything worthwhile with it, uh, that it had alienated its core support, uh, that the sense of hope that a majority of over two hundred should bring was entirely absent.

This year, it was very different, that Andy Burnham had infused the party with a renewed sense of optimism.

I think that for Labour, there are going to be very, very challenging days ahead when the budget comes with economic difficulties and also with some security questions that remain unresolved.

But nevertheless, uh, it was undoubtedly the case that across the party, there was that enthusiasm.