‘Friday Night Lights’ Revisited

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Joanna RobinsonHost1:00

[upbeat music] Hello, welcome back to the Press TV Podcast Feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:21

I'm Joanna Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:23

We're here for another installment of our look back at teen shows.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:28

Cue the explosions in the sky.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost1:32

Shaky up that cam work.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:33

It's Friday Night Lights time.

Give me a sunset.

Give me some power lines.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:37

[laughs]

Give me an oil derrick.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:39

Uh, I need a chain link fence-

Got it

Joanna RobinsonHost1:40

... preferably.

Yep.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:42

Slamming Sammy Meade on the radio.

Lone Star.

Come on.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:44

Yeah, let's do it.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:45

We're here to look at the pilot episode of Friday Night Lights, and just sort of talk about the show in general, and its legacy as a teen drama.

I just cannot believe my life has led to this moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:56

Is it the teeniest of all the teen dramas? No, it's not really, but it's a ringer sh- it's a ringer core show.

It is.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:04

It's a sports show that I love, and it's Texas, uh, which gave us Rob Mahoney, so-

Wow.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:11

... thank you Texas.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:12

[laughs]

Thank, thank you Texas, thank you to sports.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:14

Mm-hmm.

Thank you to Sports Joe.

I'm always glad when Sports Joe makes an appearance-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:18

Mm

... here to, like, explain concepts and option strategies, and-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:21

Yeah

... you know, just really get into the weeds with it.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:22

I definitely know what a tailback is.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:23

I know exactly what a tailback is.

What is y- what is your understanding of the positions of the characters on this show? Not to put you too much on the spot.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:31

Well, easily enough Jason Street and, uh, Matty Saracen are, are quarterbacks.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:36

Uh, Smash is a tailback.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:39

What that means I'm not entirely sure.

That's okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:42

Um-

I think the show sometimes doesn't know what they all mean, especially I would say Tim Riggins' position.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:47

And I don't...

Joanna RobinsonHost2:48

I feel like I think Tim Riggins is, like, a linebacker?

He honestly would be a very good linebacker I think.

I think that's probably what he should have been.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:56

What is he?

But they wanted all of their main guys to be on offense together-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:00

Yeah

...

so he's a fullback.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:01

Okay.

Not a glamour position.

And yet Tim Riggins makes it glamorous.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:05

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:06

Um, and that's been-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost3:08

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:08

Sports Corner.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:09

Matty Saracen, great arm on him-

Oh, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

...

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

but untested.

Well, he can't get a ball through a tire, but-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:15

But

... hurled that thing 40 yards downfield.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:17

When it counts, he does it.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:19

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:20

We're talking mainly about the pilot episode, the first episode of Friday Night Lights, which debuted in 2006.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:25

Uh, the reason if you did not catch this before, we, we covered Skins UK.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:29

We're doing this is to just sort of check in on some teen dramas as they compare to Euphoria.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:34

Friday Night Lights was never a show that sort of famously shocked and appalled people with its treatments of teens.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:40

But what I would say about Friday Night Lights, um, other than the fact that it's a sports show and we like it in Texas, is, um, the way in which the teens, especially, like, these incredibly talented football players who are on the cusp of going to college, et cetera, the way that they are pushed into adult roles-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost4:00

... uh, before kids would be ready to be pushed into adults' roles is, is sort of how I was thinking of comparing it to Euphoria.

Yeah, they have s- a lot of absentee parents or parents who are distracted in their own rights.

The difference between Euphoria and something like Friday Night Lights is, like, Mr. and Mrs.

Coach kind of become their surrogate parents in a lot of ways.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:18

Yeah, let's...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:19

I mean, we're, we're getting a little ahead of my plan but, like, let's talk about the way in which adults are used on this show because unlike a lot of other teen dramas where when we talked about Skins UK we talked about the way in which often they will introduce adult characters in the first season-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost4:32

... and then, like, Sandy Cohen becomes less of a character in later seasons of The OC, et cetera.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:38

Um, but this show is oriented around Eric and Tami Taylor.

Yes.

They are the backbone of the story.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:45

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:46

So the coach, and then she becomes a counselor, you know, uh, inside of the school-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost4:51

...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:51

but the d- the sort of surrogate parents.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:53

Um, and unlike other shows where, um, you know, teens can age out or whatever, they are eternal.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:01

You know, they might switch schools, but they are eternal.

Oh, and switch jobs.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:05

Um-

Tami Taylor, I mean, counselor, volleyball coach.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:09

What can't she do?

I, I ask myself that all the time.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:12

His and hers closets.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost5:13

That's all she wants.

Okay, let's just say it right now.

Connie Britton-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:15

Mm-hmm

... dancing in the kitchen.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:17

Yeah.

His and hers closets.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:18

Yeah.

Dear Lord.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:19

Very important.

Dear Lord.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:20

Very formative.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:21

Rob Mahoney, where were you when you watched Friday Night Lights the first time?

Well, this may be part of why it's formative.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:25

Yeah.

I was there day one.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:26

Yeah.

I was locked in on this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:27

And you were how old?

Uh, I was a senior in high school-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:30

Okay

... for season one.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:31

Mm-hmm.

Watching with my parents.

We, I mean, saw the commercials, we're like, "Okay, let's check out this show."

Joanna RobinsonHost5:35

Yeah.

And holy shit, I mean, this pilot just grabs you by the scruff and drags you along into the most emotional journey you're gonna have with a sports oriented teen show.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:43

Had you seen the film?

I actually at that point had not.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:46

Mm.

And I went back to it, and it's particularly shocking in many ways if you've never seen the movie and you start with the show to see, like, what Connie Britton's up to in the movie-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:54

Mm-hmm

... for example.

It's a, it's a slightly different tone.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:56

Hardly anything.

Hardly anything at all.

Barely a speaking line in that thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:59

Yeah.

Becomes a, a huge part of the show.Uh, and tonally is different, but I think the movie does have something in common with the pilot in particular.

The show hasn't totally figured out its style yet.

Hasn't totally figured out exactly how it wants to tell the story.

There's this construction with, like, the camera crews that are around the team that feels a little closer to the movie in some ways.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:19

Right.

Uh, and then eventually we just kind of discard all of that stuff and keep the naturalistic shooting style, the kinda like guerrilla camera work that's happening-

Joanna RobinsonHost6:27

Right

...

but use it to kinda ground a very teen, very highly emotional story.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:31

So this is an unusual, uh, story pipeline kind of project because it's...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:37

Friday Night Lights was a book which became a movie.

Yeah, a nonfiction book we should say.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:41

A non-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost6:42

... a nonfiction book which became a movie, uh, starring Billy Bob Thornton-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost6:46

... directed by Peter Berg.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:47

Peter Berg is brought on to write and direct the pilot episode of the show.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:52

But the show is run by Jason Katims, who will go on to do Parenthood, et cetera, et cetera.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:56

And so, um, the DNA...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:58

And then Connie Britton is in, like, the same role-

Basically

Joanna RobinsonHost7:03

...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:03

but a much better version of that role.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:05

So there's just an interesting degree of overlap between the movie and-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:09

... you know, it's not an exact continuation of, uh, the movie.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:13

It's, it's almost the same story, but not quite the same story.

And we should say, it's a pretty good movie.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:19

Oh, it's a great movie.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:21

It's a great movie.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:21

It's an even better TV show, though.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:23

If you've never seen Friday Night Lights, what's the lo- what is Friday Night Lights about? What's the log line of Friday Night Lights?

I don't even know where to begin, and this is part of the problem because-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:30

Yeah

... it's such a great sports show, but it's such a great small town show.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:33

Mm-hmm.

It's such a great family drama.

It is a great teen drama.

In theory, it should be an easy one to pitch, but this is something I encountered at the time as I was literally trying to rally people to watch this show to save it.

Some people's eyes just kinda glaze over as soon as you tell them it's a show about football.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:48

If you weren't there, you don't know what it was like to try to chase Friday Night Lights around the schedule 'cause, like, what night is it airing? Unclear.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:54

It's gonna be on...

Joanna RobinsonHost7:55

It was on, like, satellite-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:56

... for a season.

So this lined up perfectly where it's like my senior year of high school-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:01

Yeah

...

it, the show debuts.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:02

Yeah.

My senior year of college is the finale, and I am watching it on DirecTV-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:06

Right, right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:06

[laughs]

... at that point in time.

[laughs] And again, like, trying to get people to watch this show-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:11

Mm-hmm

... because it is, it is very important to me-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:13

I feel like this is-

... for, for many different ways

Joanna RobinsonHost8:14

... around the same time that, like, Community went to Yahoo.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:16

We were just, like, chasing-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost8:17

... our shows all over.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:18

NBC, what were you doing?

Very legally, I can assure you.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:20

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:21

[laughs] Very, very.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:22

Must, much so.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:22

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:23

So, um, but this is Kyle Chandler and Connie Britton, and, like, w- we talked about some of the tropes of, uh, a teen drama.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:31

Oftentimes it's, like, the first day of school.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:33

We're back from the summer.

Yep.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:34

What are we doing? Um, for Friday Night Lights, it's not quite that, but it's sort of...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:41

It's Coach's first game as head coach.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:45

And so in terms of you're orienting your perspective of, like, who is brand new, yeah, Matt Saracen is gonna be our brand new quarterback, but it's really, like, Eric Taylor's first day-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost8:56

...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:56

in high school-

It's his trial as much as anything

Joanna RobinsonHost8:57

... to, to a certain degree.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:59

And so, um, I think that's an interesting orienting perspective.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:03

And we do meet the...

Joanna RobinsonHost9:04

We do meet a lot of parents.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:06

You know, we meet the Streets, uh, Jason's parents in this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:10

My guy Buddy Garrity, uh-

Just a legend

Joanna RobinsonHost9:13

... is here.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:13

Um, Billy Riggins, who's, you know, essentially Tim's dad, uh, his, his big brother is here.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:19

There are ways in which the show, uh, involve, like, Billy Riggins or, uh, Mindy, uh, Tira's sister, or Buddy Garrity, because he's a booster.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:30

He's not just Lyla's dad.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:31

He's in the show as an invested party inside of the, the Panthers organization.

Very much so.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:37

That's a thing that they did with the parental figures where it's not defined by the absence of parents even though some of...

Joanna RobinsonHost9:43

You know, Tim's parents, where are they? But, like, the presence of adults-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost9:48

... and the way in which Eric Taylor and Tami Taylor can help shape the future of these kids is an important part of this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:00

So it's not, what do the kids get up to when the parents aren't looking? It's, how do the educators parent an entire, a entire generations of kids-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost10:11

... who come through their, their school and onto their football fields?

I mean, it turns out it makes for great TV.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:16

Mm-hmm.

And I think, I think it's playing with that presence and absence, right? It's like it's not your actual dad, but it's the person you need at that moment giving you the inspirational speech of a kind.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:24

To shove you into a shower if you need it.

Sometimes you do need that.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:27

[laughs] Um, yeah.

But I do think, like, their quality is, to me, what separates Friday Night Lights from the million different other kinds of shows it could have been.

Like, if you just boil it down to its plot points, right? Like, lead cheerleader is dating the quarterback.

Quarterback gets hurt.

Cheerleader cheats on him with the bad boy best friend.

That's like, could be Riverdale, could be, like, any other teen show.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:46

You've never seen a second of Riverdale.

I have not.

Is that what happens on Riverdale? [laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost10:50

And it shows.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:50

[laughs]

It could be any other teen drama.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:52

You didn't say jingle jangle, so that's how I know you haven't seen Riverdale.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:55

[laughs]

Genuinely have not.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:56

Mm-hmm.

But, like, if you boil down those plot points and just put them on any-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:59

Yeah

... teen drama, it could play any number of ways.

I think-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:02

A brand new quarterback dates-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost11:03

... dates the coach's daughter.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:05

You know, et cetera, et cetera.

The plot points are not revolutionary.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:08

Yeah.

But I think the grounding of the style of the show-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:10

Yeah

... and the grounding of Coach and Tami Taylor in particular, like, is what brings it down to Earth.

It regulates some of the, like, very intense teenage emotions we were talking about on the Skins episode.

It's like it doesn't feel so extreme when you have actual adults in the room to rein everything in.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:25

On the one hand, it doesn't, but on the other hand, for especially Jason Street in this pilot episode, like, the amount that is riding on his-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:31

... shoulders, an entire town.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:35

You know, the idea of the culture of this town, which is what the book Friday Night Lights is about, is like what if you lived in a place-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:41

... where the entire culture is oriented around high school football?

Shout out to the Permian Basin.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:45

And like- [laughs]

Just a, a, a true hell hole of a kind.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:47

And, like, businesses shut down on Friday nights 'cause we're all going.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:52

Everyone's there at the game.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:53

That's what we do.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:55

And, uh, you know, there is this news crew here that is talking to these kids about their futures and sort of endorsement deals.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:02

Yeah.Um, you know, the scout from Notre Dame is here talking to Jason's parents, you know, like, "What is your col- you know, are you p- gonna play professional football? Are you gonna make a ton of money doing that and have a huge ranch-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost12:14

... that your burnout friend can be the, like, w- you know, keeper of," et cetera, et cetera.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:18

Groundskeeper.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:19

Who knows? So, like, that amount of pressure, that amount of, um, like the way capitalism has its, its, like, clutches on these kids-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost12:31

... is, uh, is a heightened and extreme way in which they move through the world.

For sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:35

Yeah.

But capitalism, but also just the culture of this place, the gravitational pull of what it means to come from a place like Dillon.

Like, there's so much happening there, some of it, some of it craven, some of it wholesome, some of it just whatever it is.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:46

One might say it's a devil town.

It...

I would sometimes describe it as a devil town.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:50

Yeah.

But this to me is, like, what makes it such a great sports show-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:53

Mm-hmm

... is that all of the sports stuff is just intensifying what's happening with these characters.

You're, you're spot on to, like, this pilot is about the weight of expectation on all these different people, how it manifests for them very differently, how they're dealing with it, how you're getting cornered at the mixer by the mayor who's like, "You need to throw the damn football," over and over and over.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:09

She's a real close talker, that one.

Real, I mean, she's definitely had a couple-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:12

Yeah

... couple drinks at that thing.

Uh-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:14

Oh, that lady go, doesn't go to an event without a bottle of Chardonnay and her two starts.

Absolutely not.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:19

Yeah.

But, so you have all that to set it up, and then the football is just kind of catalyzing all of that development, all of that feeling, all of that emotion, and that's why y- you know, I think you could criticize the realism of the sports.

Like, this is a very Hail Mary-oriented show in a way that, like, a real football game would not be, but it's a Hail Mary-oriented show 'cause you've done all the legwork to make that feel like a good payoff.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:41

You have to make it exciting for the Joanna Robinsons of the world who don't watch sports at all.

It's exciting for anyone.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:45

But I can understand what's going on-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost13:47

...

Joanna RobinsonHost13:47

in Friday Night Lights.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:48

Um, yeah, and it, it is in that way also not just like a teen drama or a story about a distinctive culture of a place but, uh, almost like a workplace, uh, not comedy but, like, in its own right.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:02

Yeah, when Tim Riggins shows up drunk to practice, like, you know, what are his coworkers thinking?

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:06

And how much is riding on the various, you know, can you handle the promotion, et cetera, et cetera? But, like, you talk about this when you talk about Euphoria season three a lot, which is sort of like what's the analog of the bathroom where everyone can gather.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:19

And high school itself is an easy framework in that you can run into someone in the bathroom or the hallway or whatever the case may be.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:25

With Friday Night Lights, you have an even stronger framework around it because we're all gonna show up on Friday for the games.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:31

You know, Grandma Saracen's gonna be there-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost14:33

... et cetera, et cetera, but we're also all gonna show up to the opening of Buddy Garrity's dealership or whatever the church function might be.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:40

You know, there are these various institutions that they're all sort of locked into this pipeline in a way that, um, you know, Julie Taylor hates.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:48

Et cetera, et cetera, but, like, this, this is the culture of the town.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:51

We're locked into high school, but it's not leaning on class, classes and test performances and all of that to keep everyone together because there is this overall goal of winning the football game, winning the state championship, et cetera, et cetera, every, every season.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:08

The show is one of my favorite shows of all time.

We love to hear it.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:12

One of the best things I've ever seen.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:14

I would not call it a consistently great show.

No, it has...

I mean, look, it has some real valleys.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:18

It, it ebbs and flows.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:19

Where do you think its sort of, like, weakest points...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:21

I mean, infamously-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:23

... infamously, there's a plotline in season two.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:25

If you've never watched Friday Night Lights and this is the first year and you're like, "Huh, should I watch Friday Night Lights?" You should.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:30

I'm not gonna get into the specific, but there is a ch- a writing choice partially informed by the writers' strike, unclear, there was a writing choice that happened in season two that everyone agrees is one of the-

It's a bad idea

Joanna RobinsonHost15:40

... worst things that's ever happened on it.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:41

It's, like, it's shorthand for terrible season two decisions of a really promising freshman show.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:47

And we should say, Friday Night Lights was an underdog from when it started.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:51

It was a critical darling but not heavily viewed as a-

Even, even that I would say, like, the critical darling-ness came a little later.

Despite the fact that I, for my money, I think this is my absolute favorite pilot of any show I've ever seen.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:05

Yeah.

I think it's, like, a almost perfect construction as far as how to hook someone into a show, and it came out and it was like, all right, that was pretty good.

And a lot, even a lot of critics kind of moved on or kind of cast it aside or put it into a separate bucket.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:17

I kinda disagree.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:18

Like, it got really good reviews, and then it wasn't, it, it wasn't popular.

No, definitely not.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:23

And then it be- and then it took on this sort of, like, protect and defend it, or if you know, you know.

Yes, a secret handshake.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:30

Yeah, sort of thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:31

And so my experience, I wasn't a TV critic at the time, but I was sort of, like, getting into that world, and my watching the way in which TV critics went from like, "This is a good show," to, "This is the kind of show where right now in this particular TV landscape..."

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:48

Uh, we talked about this with Skins, 'cause they came out around the same time, this, like, huge influx of reality TV.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:53

There was this real sense of, like, moving away from narrative television.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:56

This is the kind of storytelling we wanna defend.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:59

Right? And so it became a critical darling in a sort of, like, please protect this.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:05

Let this show exist.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:06

Let it breathe.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:07

Let it survive.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:08

Does it win some Emmys? Yes, but not the Emmys that it deserved to win-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost17:12

...

Joanna RobinsonHost17:12

I think across the board.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:14

And, uh, did it grow in estimation afterwards? Yes, and part of it has to do with this phenomenon we're talking about where some major stars came out of the cast.

Hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:21

Both, like, immediately in the movie stars that they attempted to make out of this show and then the slow burn sort of these are the actors of our generation talents that emerged, emerged out of the show, that, that sort of burnishes it in hindsight and makes it feel like, uh, required viewing-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost17:39

... to a certain degree.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:41

Um, and it, and it goes up there in the pantheon, and it was a really unusual in this golden age of prestige storytelling, Mad Men, Sopranos, The Wire, et cetera, Friday Night Lights was an NBC show.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:53

So the idea was, like, if this was on HBO or FX, um, or AMC or another place where it could be protected, uh, and it wasn't as beholden to ratings and advertisers and stuff like that, it wouldn't have felt so fragile-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost18:07

...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:07

in its existence, you know?

I would say and is even more accessible than those shows-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:11

Mm

...

if you give it a chance.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:12

Yeah.

The good news isThe evangelism has already been done by time.

Like, the reputation of Friday Night Lights has been burnished in a way where I don't need to come on this podcast and sell people to watch it.

If you're gonna watch the show, you probably already have.

And if you're not, I think once you watch this pilot, you will be just, like, fully in this world and ready to see where it goes.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:29

What do you think is, is the m- the aspect of the pilot that most stands out to you as, like, undeniable?

Oh, man.

I mean, everything that happens in the football game at the end-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:39

Mm-hmm

... from, especially from the moment that Street gets hurt-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:42

Mm-hmm

... is electric.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:44

Mm-hmm.

And it's electric 'cause all that groundwork has been laid emotionally, but in particular, to me the, the magic pixie dust is all of the Coach Taylor/Saracen stuff during the game, the like, "Slow down."

Joanna RobinsonHost18:56

Yeah.

"Do you know how to read the f- the field anymore?"

Joanna RobinsonHost18:58

Yeah.

"Do your best."

Joanna RobinsonHost18:59

Yeah.

And it's like the, there's so many moments in this episode where it's like you expect the trophy thing, you expect, like, the big yelling moment, and it turns out to be a very quiet one.

And I think Friday Night Lights plays with the dynamics of those kinds of emotions really, really well in a way that backfoots you and, like, wants you to lean in.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:15

It's a subversion of expectations, right?

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:16

Because, um, if you don't know the pr- a- and I don't consider what happens in the pilot a spoiler 'cause this is the premise of the show, which is that Jason Street, who is the number-one teenage, uh, player-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:28

... high school-

Quarterback prospect in the country probably

Joanna RobinsonHost19:30

...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:30

in the country.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:32

Uh, Eric Taylor has been his coach since peewee-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost19:35

...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:35

so has been with this kid since he was small, and most crucially, I mean, there's so many crucial moments inside of this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:42

But he's just, like, this all-American, nice-guy kid, has the nice girlfriend-

Boy Scout

Joanna RobinsonHost19:46

... has the nice parents, is gonna go to Notre Dame or something like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:50

And, and Coach Taylor loves him as much as he sort of, like, needs him-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:55

... for his coaching career and his coaching moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:57

He loves this kid, and when he has a conversation where he's like, "You've earned this.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:01

This is your moment.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:03

You've worked so hard for this.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:05

All these expectations are on you, but also this wasn't handed to you."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:08

"You worked for it, and you earned this," and all of that promise and all of that hype, and then he has a career-ending injury, a life-altering injury-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost20:19

... inside of this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:20

And so even though we don't get, like, the full story of what his future will be outside of this, um, it's clear from this episode that all of these expectations, all of this reality-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost20:34

... that these people have been dealing...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:35

Eric knows that his co- a lot is riding on this, his first season as head coach of the Dillon Panthers, but he's got Jason Street, and so he is going, you know, and all...

Joanna RobinsonHost20:46

You know, "And I'm gonna buy a new house for my family, and all these things are gonna change." And Matt Saracen, backup quarterback, knows, "I'm just a young kid here.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:55

I'm gonna sit on the bench for the whole season, and that's gonna be-"

I'm gonna hold the extra point sometimes.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:58

"That's gonna be my reality."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:00

And, and, uh, Tim Riggins is like, "My best friend is a star quarterback, and I'm a fuckup, and I show up.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:06

But, but Jason's here, and that's fine.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:07

He's holding it down." All of those, you know, all of the legs of all those things get cut out.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:12

Lyla Garrity knows her entire future, and it all gets changed in this pilot.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:16

And, and the way in which you contrast, especially in the final moments of the game, Matt's trial by fire as having to step up as quarterback and this...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:26

The fact that they have to finish this game when everything knows, knows something horrible has happened to Jason, and he is at the hospital.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:36

You hear the saw going through the helmet that they have to cut off of him in order to try to help this young kid-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost21:46

... whose life is forever changed.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:48

You hear the saw while you're watching the game, and you're watching people cheer.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:52

And, and I actually think the real juice of this whole episode is the way in which they're losing with Jason-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost22:01

... and then Jason leaves, and they're winning.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:04

And there's this excitement, and there's this...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:07

And the whole crowd is roaring and cheering with the reality of what it cost to get here, which was the end of this young man's-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost22:16

...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:16

this version of this young man's life.

In particular, like, y- I think you nailed it as far as them losing with Street, and he...

Like, the play that gets him hurt is he throws an interception and then does, like, a very selfless but ill-advised thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:28

He's the only one who could stand between-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost22:31

...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:31

this guy and a, a game-winning goal.

A game-saving tackle-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah

...

but one executed very dangerously.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:37

Right.

Which, I mean, when I was growing up, especially in Texas, this was, like, PSA season for, like, this is the exact thing you do not do on a football field, this blind tackle with your head down, 'cause this exact thing s- can happen.

And it's just...

I think the, the, the whiplash from the excitement of an incredible dramatic sports movie-type comeback into all the players kneeling at midfield.

I mean, I, I've seen this pilot so many times.

I've seen this show so many times.

I well up every single time I watch it.

And I don't, I don't know how it can continue to access that power when you know exactly what's coming.

And as you said, Jo, it's the premise of the show.

It's not even the dramatic turn of, like-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:13

The finale

... season three, your favorite character died.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is what the show is.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:16

Yeah.

And I think how artfully they introduce the formula of what a teen show often is, right? It is the star quarterback.

It is the lead cheerleader.

It is the bad boy.

It is, like, the people on the edge of cool, like Saracen and Landry, who are, like, just outside of it.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:30

Yeah, my guys.

All of it's right there, and it takes about, I think, 10 to 15 minutes to do that in a way that feels so lived in, and then it takes about 10 to 15 minutes at the end of the episode to completely deconstruct it and say, "The main characters of this show are not who you thought they were."

Joanna RobinsonHost23:44

Right.

"And we're gonna change the stakes.

We're gonna change all those expectations that you had, and now you're gonna go into episode two, and it's gonna feel like a whole new show."

Joanna RobinsonHost23:51

I think the interesting thing, you know, a- and to go back to my earlier question that we got away from 'cause I got distracted by that season two blunder that they made, but, like, the way in which the show struggled sometimes was...

Joanna RobinsonHost24:03

I, I think there's so, there's such compelling drama in what happens to Jason Street after this.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:10

And his relationship with Lyla and with Tim and with Coach and with-

And with football and with life

Joanna RobinsonHost24:15

... and with life-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost24:16

... is compelling.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:17

But then when you're in a TV show, they sort of-They burned through it earlier, I think, than they, faster than they expected.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:24

And so they wanted to keep Jason-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost24:26

...

Joanna RobinsonHost24:26

in the mix, and they couldn't always quite figure out how to do that.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:31

Or they wanted to, you know, they've got someone in Jesse Plemons playing Landry.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:37

Um, genuinely, I'm not kidding, my favorite character from the start.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:40

I love Landry.

He's amazing.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:42

They have Landry, someone who was not meant to be so central.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:47

They're like, "Uh-oh, look what we got in Jes- Jesse Plemons, a literal Texas teen-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost24:52

... that we, like, picked up and put in the show," and, "Uh-oh, he's really good." And so they made some miscalculations in how to center him-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost24:59

... uh, in the story going forward.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:00

And then I think some of, like, the teen, the teen melodrama is not always their strongest suit.

Of course not.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:07

You know? And so, well, I just think that, like, when we think about this in relation to other teen dramas-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost25:14

... you know, the way that other shows...

Joanna RobinsonHost25:16

And, and, and this is, I mean, Bill and Julianna and I talked about this a lot with The O.C., the way that O.C. just, like, burned through four seasons of plot in its first season.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:24

Like, its first season is incredible, and then they're like, "Uh-oh, we did it all." So, like, this is an ongoing problem of teen dramas, that they just, like, burn hot and fast, and then they're just sort of like, "How do we sustain this?" Or, "How many times can we go around this particular-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost25:38

... love triangle or shuffle up, like, you know, the, the players on the board to, to keep you engaged?" So this is, this is an issue that a lot of shows have.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:45

But, like, Friday Night Lights was always so strong with Eric and Tami, that central relationship, and, but was unafraid to really shake up its premise.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:57

When you move Eric from the Dillon Panthers to the East Dillon Tigers, like, that's a scary thing to do inside-

Very much so

Joanna RobinsonHost26:06

... of your show, you know? When you start cycling in new cast members, and I would say not always very successfully.

No.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:14

That's, that's-

Epic.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:16

Tough.

There- there's a lot happening.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:18

Really tough.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:20

You know, uh, but then you get Michael B. Jordan showing up-

You do

Joanna RobinsonHost26:22

... on the show, uh, and that forever sort of, uh, burnishes your legacy.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:26

So, like, it was unafraid to try things.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:29

And was not always successful at it.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:31

But I, I, I think it's interesting to talk about it in the teen drama bucket, 'cause I just don't know that I think the teen drama of it was its most successful aspect.

I think it can often be quite good, but you're right.

The need to continue to draw more and more plot out of these characters-

Joanna RobinsonHost26:46

Yeah

... exhausts even the characters you may love the most.

Even someone like Tim Riggins just gets pulled into all sorts of corners and subplots.

It's like, all right, you're sleeping with who now?

Joanna RobinsonHost26:55

Yeah.

And you're like a surrogate dad, and also the girl next door.

It's like there's just, like, a lot that they have to do, again, to keep those characters on the edges of the story.

But it speaks to something we talked about with Skins, which is, like, how do you continue to tell a high school story-

Joanna RobinsonHost27:08

Right

... as your characters are getting older? And the decision of Friday Night Lights, I would say it is, like, a, you know, a Eric and Tami Taylor anchored story fundamentally.

But really it's like you have to make the choice of is the show gonna follow characters, or is it gonna follow the construct?

Joanna RobinsonHost27:22

Right.

And the construct of Friday Night Lights is Dillon, Texas.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:25

Yeah.

And the show's like, "We are gonna stay here.

Lyla's gonna go off to Vanderbilt.

We're gonna kinda see her pop back once, once in a while."

Joanna RobinsonHost27:32

Right.

"Smash is gonna go to Texas A&M.

You're gonna, like, see his highlights on TV, but, like, we're not really gonna hear from him again.

We're gonna stay here." And so there's some characters who make sense to stick around, because they don't have places to go.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:43

Right.

Or they don't have a life to chase or, like, you know, a college degree to go after or whatever.

But yeah, you have to manufacture reasons for them to be there, and I think most importantly, manufacture reasons for them to still bump into the characters that you actually do care about.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:56

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost27:57

In your final season of the show, the only characters who were main characters in the first season who are still main characters-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost28:07

... are the Taylor family, Eric, Tami, and Julie.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:09

That's it.

And that's a good season.

It is a good season.

It, I would say, you know, it hits the highs earlier, but it, it pretty successfully gets through the reboot learning curve of bringing in that new cast that you mentioned-

Joanna RobinsonHost28:22

Right

... at East Dillon.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:24

Um, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:26

I would say I think the, the show developed a bit of a Tim Riggins problem in that Taylor Kitsch was, like, such a popular, um, you know, Tim Riggins was such a popular character.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:38

But it's, yeah, like, what do you do with a character who's supposed to peak in high school?

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:42

And how do you keep him hanging around after he's done? There are some things that are built into, they cleverly built in the story, and it's always smart to do this in the teen drama.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:51

You know, we talked about it in, in Skins.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:53

They've got, um, you know, uh, Effy Stonem, Tony's younger sister, so you can have another generation.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost28:59

And, like, Julie and Landry and Matt Saracen are all younger-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost29:04

... than, you know, uh, your Jason Streets and your Tim Riggins and your Smashes and stuff like that, and your Lyla Garritys.

Although in classic teen drama tradition, it's often not very clear exactly what year.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:15

It's a little confusing.

Yeah, like, are you a junior, a senior, or what?

Joanna RobinsonHost29:17

A little confusing.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:18

But it's al- Like, thinking about could they have done this on Euphoria, like, they kind of...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:23

In the first season, you've got, uh, Rue's younger sister-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost29:26

... played by Storm Reid, who's, uh, Gia, who's, like, and she's hanging out with some young, younger kids, like in the carnival episode and stuff like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:34

Like, there is this seed that they planted where they could have done, and if they were doing, like, the Skins version of Euphoria-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost29:41

... season three and season four would be the Gia and her friends season.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:46

You know? Which is like, how do you let go of Sydney Sweeney and Jacob Elordi and Zendaya, right?

And Zendaya, that's the problem.

Joanna RobinsonHost29:51

Um, and then if it were the Friday Night Lights model, you would keep those older characters-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost29:56

... outside of high school, but you would still follow-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost29:58

...

Joanna RobinsonHost29:59

Gia and her friends, uh, and try to sort of blend in the younger characters into this.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:04

And you get your, like, Luke Caffertys-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost30:07

... or your, uh, Jess- Jesses or your Beckys, et cetera.

Your Beckys.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:10

Yeah.

May, may she live in infamy.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:12

[laughs]

I, I do think the difference and the thing that Friday Night Lights has working in its favor relative to something like Euphoria in terms of that kind of handover-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:19

Yeah

... is it does make narrative sense that someone like Tim Riggins would just be kind of, like, stuck in this Dillon black hole a little bit, that he would have a hard time escaping the orbit in a way where if you wanted to continue telling-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:33

Yes

...

the story of seasons one and two of Euphoria, like, you have to really, you'd have to really tie yourself in knots to get there.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:37

there.Yeah, and, um, it's just a way in which they were, like, trying to make Tim connected to the high school characters.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:45

Right.

He's a coach now.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:46

Right.

He's around.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:47

It's-

I don't know.

But let- let the man-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:48

Is he having sex with them? Questions.

D- don't ask too many questions.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:51

Questions, comments, concerns.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:51

Yeah.

Uh, let the fuck-up be a fuck-up-

Joanna RobinsonHost30:53

Yeah

... is generally my policy on these things.

Joanna RobinsonHost30:54

Yeah.

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