Alan ThomsonGuest
John SorochanGuest
Richard GravesHost
What does the science actually tell us, John, about that relationship between playing surfaces, player movements and injury risk?

So, you know, when we when we when we look at pitches and we look at it, you know, there's three factors that come into play for player performance and safety in a state.

It's the athlete themselves, it's the surface, and then the footwear they're wearing.

And how those three things come together in their interaction determines, you know, the quality of play that a player's going to have, whether they're slipping and falling or maybe they get too much traction where they roll an ankle or blow a knee out to, you know, optimally, you know, you want to be at that elite performance for playability but also, you know, not compromise your health and safety.

And the reason we've got this debate, Alan, is because there are options when it comes to playing surfaces.

For myself, working as I do with English Football League clubs and the Premier League, it's commonplace to have a hybrid system, not so necessarily across American sports.

So take us through the options that are available today from natural grass, synthetic turf to that hybrid model as well.

Yeah, I think when you look at the hybrid model, you know, the technology has been around since the early 2000s, potentially even latterly the late 90s, really, when it came into the development phase.

And I think through the years it was, OK, how can we take that technology and apply it to different sports? Now, that has then subsequently put us into the rugby world, to the tennis world, the cricket world.

You know, even more latterly over the last 18 months is really looking at, OK, from we were involved in the first NFL field that we were involved in in 2018 to now being involved in baseball fields and even lacrosse fields as well.

So we've seen that transition of, you know, where that technology has been able to apply itself.

But also looking at the technology and saying, okay, how can we differ that and have that as an option where we have the natural sense of the world and then we have the artificial world as how can we position hybrid as a third option in that sense within certain sports for sure.

And also innovating that hybrid approach product to say well we can actually use this technology and make it apply to that venue hence the reason of various options that I'm sure will come into play later on in the conversation.

And regular listeners to this podcast will recall a conversation we had almost a year ago to the day with the NFL's field director, Nick Pappas, discussing the different options, the testing that goes on, be it at somewhere like Tottenham Hotspur Stadium or when they're preparing to go to Croke Park in Ireland last winter and then to the Bernabeu in Madrid.

John, a lot of testing goes into these surfaces ever before they're laid in a stadia and certainly before they're played on.

When you test these playing surfaces, what are you actually measuring? And what do those measurements tell us in terms of what is capable in player performance and player safety?

Yeah, so there's a lot of different tests that go on, you know, when it comes to measuring and testing the pitches and, you know, looking at, you know, simply looking at the surface hardness or uniformity, measuring how much, you know, cover there is of grass and then the resistance of that grass, whether you're doing a rotational test or a translational test or an impact test on it.

You know, there's different ways to assess it and look at it, but the goal is to identify, you know, kind of, corridors or ranges that you want to be within as well as looking at consistency and uniformity across the surface.

What does the science actually tell us, John, about that relationship between playing surfaces, player movements and injury risk?

So, you know, when we when we when we look at pitches and we look at it, you know, there's three factors that come into play for player performance and safety in a state.

It's the athlete themselves, it's the surface, and then the footwear they're wearing.

And how those three things come together in their interaction determines, you know, the quality of play that a player's going to have, whether they're slipping and falling or maybe they get too much traction where they roll an ankle or blow a knee out to, you know, optimally, you know, you want to be at that elite performance for playability but also, you know, not compromise your health and safety.

And the reason we've got this debate, Alan, is because there are options when it comes to playing surfaces.

For myself, working as I do with English Football League clubs and the Premier League, it's commonplace to have a hybrid system, not so necessarily across American sports.

So take us through the options that are available today from natural grass, synthetic turf to that hybrid model as well.

Yeah, I think when you look at the hybrid model, you know, the technology has been around since the early 2000s, potentially even latterly the late 90s, really, when it came into the development phase.

And I think through the years it was, OK, how can we take that technology and apply it to different sports? Now, that has then subsequently put us into the rugby world, to the tennis world, the cricket world.

You know, even more latterly over the last 18 months is really looking at, OK, from we were involved in the first NFL field that we were involved in in 2018 to now being involved in baseball fields and even lacrosse fields as well.

So we've seen that transition of, you know, where that technology has been able to apply itself.

But also looking at the technology and saying, okay, how can we differ that and have that as an option where we have the natural sense of the world and then we have the artificial world as how can we position hybrid as a third option in that sense within certain sports for sure.

And also innovating that hybrid approach product to say well we can actually use this technology and make it apply to that venue hence the reason of various options that I'm sure will come into play later on in the conversation.

And regular listeners to this podcast will recall a conversation we had almost a year ago to the day with the NFL's field director, Nick Pappas, discussing the different options, the testing that goes on, be it at somewhere like Tottenham Hotspur Stadium or when they're preparing to go to Croke Park in Ireland last winter and then to the Bernabeu in Madrid.

John, a lot of testing goes into these surfaces ever before they're laid in a stadia and certainly before they're played on.

When you test these playing surfaces, what are you actually measuring? And what do those measurements tell us in terms of what is capable in player performance and player safety?

Yeah, so there's a lot of different tests that go on, you know, when it comes to measuring and testing the pitches and, you know, looking at, you know, simply looking at the surface hardness or uniformity, measuring how much, you know, cover there is of grass and then the resistance of that grass, whether you're doing a rotational test or a translational test or an impact test on it.

You know, there's different ways to assess it and look at it, but the goal is to identify, you know, kind of, corridors or ranges that you want to be within as well as looking at consistency and uniformity across the surface.
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