Oct 12, 2026 · 1 hr 21 min · 15 segments
**When does honorable sacrifice become a cage?** A man works long hours to provide for his family. He pays the bills, keeps his commitments, & does what needs to be done. But what happens when the…
And so John, after all that, what I want to know is, are you quitting your job?
[laughs] No, not tomorrow at least.
But to be completely honest, the more I heard Father Michael talk about this and answer our questions, the more I felt like a whiny baby
Just get over it, John.
Yeah, we talked a little backstage that it's hard moving from the immediate gratification of constantly working physically and, and especially for us, the competition in martial arts and getting that gratification and feeling the purpose right in front of you.
Now, it doesn't mean the work is any less meaningful or fulfilling, it's just that, again, like we said, it's more abstract, and that telos might just be a little further off, and it's something you have to really look for, but it's there.
Now, I was a little worried that we spent the last hour accidentally radicalizing you.
I think it was more walking me off a cliff-
... or rather pulling me back from the cliff.
Yeah, exactly.
But to that, I think that's what I actually like the most about this conversation because the answer was never gonna be, "If your job is hard, leave." But it also can't simply be, "You're a man, shut up, provide, and slowly disappear." There obviously is that real path in between.
There's obviously a real distinction between sacrifice that forms us and a way of life that gradually consumes the very things that sacrifice was supposedly for.
I think Father Michael gave us a really useful way of thinking about that.
Absolutely, and the cage analogy gets a lot less simple once you bring the idea of obedience into it.
Right, especially when we started getting into the monks and to Father Roman because that may have been the most important complication in the whole conversation.
We drove forward with that about how monks give up enormous amounts of their autonomy by following rules and schedules and doing work that he may not have chosen and accepting that obedience.
And yet the church can look at all these constraints and say that that can actually make the person more free.
So the question isn't just, "Do I feel constrained?" But rather, "What is this forming in me? What is this sacrifice for? And what kind of man am I becoming through it?" Which it sounds like Father Michael's now got his new program to help you decide what kind of man you wanna be.
And so John, after all that, what I want to know is, are you quitting your job?
[laughs] No, not tomorrow at least.
But to be completely honest, the more I heard Father Michael talk about this and answer our questions, the more I felt like a whiny baby
Just get over it, John.
Yeah, we talked a little backstage that it's hard moving from the immediate gratification of constantly working physically and, and especially for us, the competition in martial arts and getting that gratification and feeling the purpose right in front of you.
Now, it doesn't mean the work is any less meaningful or fulfilling, it's just that, again, like we said, it's more abstract, and that telos might just be a little further off, and it's something you have to really look for, but it's there.
Now, I was a little worried that we spent the last hour accidentally radicalizing you.
I think it was more walking me off a cliff-
... or rather pulling me back from the cliff.
Yeah, exactly.
But to that, I think that's what I actually like the most about this conversation because the answer was never gonna be, "If your job is hard, leave." But it also can't simply be, "You're a man, shut up, provide, and slowly disappear." There obviously is that real path in between.
There's obviously a real distinction between sacrifice that forms us and a way of life that gradually consumes the very things that sacrifice was supposedly for.
I think Father Michael gave us a really useful way of thinking about that.
Absolutely, and the cage analogy gets a lot less simple once you bring the idea of obedience into it.
Right, especially when we started getting into the monks and to Father Roman because that may have been the most important complication in the whole conversation.
We drove forward with that about how monks give up enormous amounts of their autonomy by following rules and schedules and doing work that he may not have chosen and accepting that obedience.
And yet the church can look at all these constraints and say that that can actually make the person more free.
So the question isn't just, "Do I feel constrained?" But rather, "What is this forming in me? What is this sacrifice for? And what kind of man am I becoming through it?" Which it sounds like Father Michael's now got his new program to help you decide what kind of man you wanna be.
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