Oct 22, 2026 · 43 min · 10 segments
This week on MACRODOSE we’re publishing a special bonus episode with former leader of the Green Party, Caroline Lucas, and environmental philosopher and activist, Professor Rupert Read. Caroline and…
Rupert ReadGuest
Caroline LucasGuestJames MeadwayHostI mean, I have to say, and maybe this is a bad point to get towards a conclusion on, but the implication of all of this is quite a radical shift in how we think about politics as such.
I mean, particularly on the left, for a long period of time, there's a sort of belief that The world is there to be reshaped, not just on the left, actually.
Any version of politics is a bit like, well, we now have the capacity to just reshape the world around us in lots and lots of different ways, and the line of growth goes up and up and up forever, and that's going to be how the world is from now on.
And there are left-wing versions of that, right-wing versions of that, centrist versions of that, the idea of a technocracy that will just supply more and more material goods forever and ever.
Actually, the philosophical base underneath this is something potentially quite different, which is, well, as you said, channeling Churchill, blood, toil, tears and sweat is not the same as you've never had it so good.
You're actually posing something quite different, potentially very challenging indeed, not only to people on the left, but people right across the political spectrum to think about how we're living in a world that isn't just going to respond to everything we do as of right and whatever fantasy of technology we have.
We are saying something different, but I think that people are ready to hear that because in their own lives and what they hear every time they turn the radio on.
or put on the TV or something, are messages that absolutely kind of reinforce this.
How many people would have expected to listen on the media to voices telling them that AI could potentially destroy the whole human race within 10 years? And then Geoffrey Hinton, who's kind of regarded as the godfather of AI.
And I remember the moment on Newsnight when Victoria Derbyshire, I sort of asked him what he thought.
And when he basically said, yeah, I think 10 years is about right, you know, there was just that you could feel a collective intake of breath across the whole nation.
So people, I think, know that the way we're living now is not only unsustainable, but it's not even delivering the kind of, you know, the well-being, the fulfillment, the whatever words we want to use.
And their kids can see that, you know, and we've talked about all the multiple challenges there are for young people now.
Many of them are the economic challenges around housing, cost of living, student debt, jobs and so forth.
angst that grief that fear about what world are they are they coming into you know people talking about not having kids because they're they're really scared about this world so i feel as if there's there are so many warning signs already that that people can see that that the future is not going to be the same as the past the question is is it going to be can we make it better in many ways or or will we revert to this this really dark and dangerous future that I think the far right would have us take to.
I mean, I have to say, and maybe this is a bad point to get towards a conclusion on, but the implication of all of this is quite a radical shift in how we think about politics as such.
I mean, particularly on the left, for a long period of time, there's a sort of belief that The world is there to be reshaped, not just on the left, actually.
Any version of politics is a bit like, well, we now have the capacity to just reshape the world around us in lots and lots of different ways, and the line of growth goes up and up and up forever, and that's going to be how the world is from now on.
And there are left-wing versions of that, right-wing versions of that, centrist versions of that, the idea of a technocracy that will just supply more and more material goods forever and ever.
Actually, the philosophical base underneath this is something potentially quite different, which is, well, as you said, channeling Churchill, blood, toil, tears and sweat is not the same as you've never had it so good.
You're actually posing something quite different, potentially very challenging indeed, not only to people on the left, but people right across the political spectrum to think about how we're living in a world that isn't just going to respond to everything we do as of right and whatever fantasy of technology we have.
We are saying something different, but I think that people are ready to hear that because in their own lives and what they hear every time they turn the radio on.
or put on the TV or something, are messages that absolutely kind of reinforce this.
How many people would have expected to listen on the media to voices telling them that AI could potentially destroy the whole human race within 10 years? And then Geoffrey Hinton, who's kind of regarded as the godfather of AI.
And I remember the moment on Newsnight when Victoria Derbyshire, I sort of asked him what he thought.
And when he basically said, yeah, I think 10 years is about right, you know, there was just that you could feel a collective intake of breath across the whole nation.
So people, I think, know that the way we're living now is not only unsustainable, but it's not even delivering the kind of, you know, the well-being, the fulfillment, the whatever words we want to use.
And their kids can see that, you know, and we've talked about all the multiple challenges there are for young people now.
Many of them are the economic challenges around housing, cost of living, student debt, jobs and so forth.
angst that grief that fear about what world are they are they coming into you know people talking about not having kids because they're they're really scared about this world so i feel as if there's there are so many warning signs already that that people can see that that the future is not going to be the same as the past the question is is it going to be can we make it better in many ways or or will we revert to this this really dark and dangerous future that I think the far right would have us take to.
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