Leading Conversations - the Begin Center Podcast
Jul 5, 2026 · 1 hr 18 min · 14 segments
This episode continues our series of conversations about the men - and one woman – who served as Prime Minister of Israel. Michael Oren is a historian, author, diplomat, and former Israeli Ambassador…
Michael OrenGuest
Paul GrossHost
And this is the background to May, 1967, When Eshkol enters his first, sort of a mini crisis with the United States over whether to have a parade in Jerusalem to celebrate Israel's 19th anniversary.
And remember at the time Jerusalem was divided and had very strict regulations about what kind of armaments you could show in Jerusalem.
And Rafi and also Rahal under Begin wanted to have tanks and guns paraded in the streets of Jerusalem.
And so Eshkol, famous Eshkol story, they used to say that he was a great compromiser that when a waitress asked him whether he wanted tea or coffee, what did he say?
Half of each.
What does he say to Americans? We'll have a parade with soldiers, with guns, but no tanks and no artillery pieces.
And so he's attacked by both the right and the left for agreeing to this compromise.
And it's during those celebrations on Israel's 19th birthday, Yom Ha'atzmaut, May 23rd, 1967, while everyone is singing Yerushalayim Shel Zahav, which was the hit song of that week, A word comes that the Egyptians have just kicked the United Nations Emergency Force out of Egypt, that the Egyptian army is streaming into Egypt.
And in the next few days, we'd find out that the Egyptians would also close the Straits of Tehran, basically cutting off Israel's southern port of Eilat, which was an act of war, an act of belligerency.
Last time when we heard about Golda Meir, one of the issues that we discussed was the way that she's remembered, and perhaps unfairly or fairly, depending on how you see it, but certainly with regard to the Yom Kippur War.
And I think in the case of Levi Eshkol, despite all the positive things that you're saying, there is this view of Levi Eshkol as...
the prime minister who gave a sort of bumbling address on radio, which didn't inspire confidence.
And then you had people inside Israel, including Menachem Begin, going to Ben-Gurion, of all people, and asking him to come and take over.
And in the end, Dayan comes in as defense minister to sort of shore things up and inspire more confidence.
And you do get this picture from that, at least, of perhaps a flaw in Eshgal that he wasn't charismatic enough and he didn't project the kind of leadership that the country needed at that time.
Listen, one of the great qualities of any leader is a decision maker, got to be a good politician to be a leader.
I think if you see me a lot on the news and I have to go on the news and say one of the great...
And this is the background to May, 1967, When Eshkol enters his first, sort of a mini crisis with the United States over whether to have a parade in Jerusalem to celebrate Israel's 19th anniversary.
And remember at the time Jerusalem was divided and had very strict regulations about what kind of armaments you could show in Jerusalem.
And Rafi and also Rahal under Begin wanted to have tanks and guns paraded in the streets of Jerusalem.
And so Eshkol, famous Eshkol story, they used to say that he was a great compromiser that when a waitress asked him whether he wanted tea or coffee, what did he say?
Half of each.
What does he say to Americans? We'll have a parade with soldiers, with guns, but no tanks and no artillery pieces.
And so he's attacked by both the right and the left for agreeing to this compromise.
And it's during those celebrations on Israel's 19th birthday, Yom Ha'atzmaut, May 23rd, 1967, while everyone is singing Yerushalayim Shel Zahav, which was the hit song of that week, A word comes that the Egyptians have just kicked the United Nations Emergency Force out of Egypt, that the Egyptian army is streaming into Egypt.
And in the next few days, we'd find out that the Egyptians would also close the Straits of Tehran, basically cutting off Israel's southern port of Eilat, which was an act of war, an act of belligerency.
Last time when we heard about Golda Meir, one of the issues that we discussed was the way that she's remembered, and perhaps unfairly or fairly, depending on how you see it, but certainly with regard to the Yom Kippur War.
And I think in the case of Levi Eshkol, despite all the positive things that you're saying, there is this view of Levi Eshkol as...
the prime minister who gave a sort of bumbling address on radio, which didn't inspire confidence.
And then you had people inside Israel, including Menachem Begin, going to Ben-Gurion, of all people, and asking him to come and take over.
And in the end, Dayan comes in as defense minister to sort of shore things up and inspire more confidence.
And you do get this picture from that, at least, of perhaps a flaw in Eshgal that he wasn't charismatic enough and he didn't project the kind of leadership that the country needed at that time.
Listen, one of the great qualities of any leader is a decision maker, got to be a good politician to be a leader.
I think if you see me a lot on the news and I have to go on the news and say one of the great...
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