What Made a Neo-Nazi Leader Abandon White Supremacy? | Jeff Schoep

That, that is so interesting.

I, I, I gotta tell you, I've never heard the phrase neo-Nazis voting Democrat ever in my life, and that's pretty amazing, dude.

[laughs] Like, that's g- I, I didn't expect that to be on my bingo card today.

And, um, I am like, "That is wild, bro." Like, I'm gonna remember that.

I've n- I, that is not what I thought you would say.

I thought maybe they would vote Republican every now and then, but then they just hate, you know, both parties.

But it's amazing, like, yeah, and they voted to, "Hey, this is gonna bring the country down faster." That's, I mean, and, and, and what it shows me is people are complicated and their reasons aren't necessarily predictable.

And we love to treat people like they're predictable, even neo-Nazis.

Like, "Oh, we got 'em in the bag.

We know exactly what they're like and what they think." And the reality is, we don't.

No.

Maybe we have some ideas, maybe we have general directions or things we think are reprehensible that we could say about it, whatever it is, but we don't actually know, um, exactly what people's motivations are.

And, and with this, you know, I, I'm assuming that psychology was a major part, uh, whether it was implicit, explicit, or implicitly done, in keeping people in these groups.

'Cause I'm just imagining, like, you're talking about, well, we had, like, a military hierarchy, right? So when I think about the military, you know, if I, I never, I never served.

Will didn't serve.

Um, and I've known people in the military, right? It's a very, it, it's very hierarchical-

It's very

...

but you're getting paid.

Um, they actually can fire you or put you in the, you know, you know, or go court-martialed or whatever it is if you're not, I don't know all the disciplinary process, right? But there's a disciplinary process that you have to submit to, right? Um, if you're gonna keep that job or even beyond 'cause, because you have done it, you've legally obligated yourself in certain ways.

And I'm thinking about how does that work in a white supremacist or in a neo-Nazi, um, framework? Like, is it just the psychology has to be so br- um, you know, ratcheted up? It's gotta be brought up so much that people just, you know, that they think that the whole world is gonna be destroyed if they don't obey.

Like, how, h- how do you, how does the psychology, how do you get s- people that, to listen like that and to just follow rank? Like these older guys that were there that were upset that a younger guy came in.

Like, can you just explain some of the psychology and the psychologizing that happens? In, in these groups

Yeah.

Yes, absolutely.