578. Alastair and Michael Gove Disagree Agreeably on Brexit and Israel

A couple here.

Simoen: Do you think there will be another EU referendum? Time will tell.

Tim from Birmingham: Hi, Alastair and Michael.

Before the leadership challenge, Andy Burnham promised not to rerun the Brexit arguments.

Now, a few months into the job, he's saying we could go all the way and rejoin.

Where does he go from here? If Labour goes into twenty twenty-nine offering a choice between status quo, customs union, single market or full membership, which would each of you back? So first of all, yes or no, Michael, do you think we will have another Europe referendum at some point in our lifetime? And secondly, which of those options would you back if we did?

First off, I don't think there'll be a referendum.

What I think, um, Andy Burnham, uh, will try to do is to, uh, forge a new relationship with the European Union on closer terms and then, uh, seek a mandate, probably, um, not necessarily at the next election, but probably at a future election, to take us back in on the basis of a general election result.

So I don't think that, uh, there will be another referendum.

If there were another referendum, I'd vote for the status quo.

That is interesting 'cause th-that is my ideal position, the one that you've just outlined, and I've written about it in the New World this week, and I've said that I don't think even Andy Burnham will be that bold.

But I, I hope you're right.

I hope you're right 'cause I think that would be the right thing for the country.

What do you make of his statement in his speech in Liverpool that Brexit has done more harm than good? It's very hard to dispute that, Michael.

It is, um, I think, uh, challenging, but I will.

The interesting thing is that he acknowledged that it had done some good.

So normally-

Sorry, where did he...

Where, which bit of the speech did he acknowledge it was more harm than good? Does not, does not mean that good was done.

Well, I, I, I took from it, and you might say that this is an example of cock-eyed optimism, that he was acknowledging that there was a balance.

And, um, one of the things I'd say about the Labour government is that it has actually, in its actions, recognized that there are good things from Brexit.

So, um, taking VAT off, um, uh, gas and electricity bills, um, impossible in, within the European Union.

Um, putting VAT on independent school fees, impossible.

A policy which you support, obviously.

Exactly.