How to Think Like a World-Class Marketer | Rory Sutherland

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I keep hearing people saying, "You will say to your AI, 'Find me a skiing holiday,' and it will provide you with the perfect skiing holiday." And I keep saying, "People don't decide like that." When you allow tech bros too much power over decision-making, along with their running dog lackeys in kind of management consultancy, you're optimizing for something which may be very, very distant from what your real-world customers really care about.

What makes Dyson so effective at advertising?

Actually, it's, it's not advertising, it's marketing and it's customer experience.

What's the difference between marketing and advertising?

Advertising is a subordinate part of marketing, and-

Do you think we're looking for efficiency in the wrong place?

We usually do, and so you focus too heavily on cost reduction and too little on value creation.

What are the rules of good copy? If I asked you to teach me how to write good copy, how would you do that?

I think a large part of it comes down to... (instrumental music plays)

So we first.

...

We were talking about this in the elevator.

It was nine years ago.

Sheesh.

Back when podcasting wasn't even a thing.

We must be able to dig out the original content, presumably.

Yeah.

What was it? It was your podcast number 47 or something, was it?

Oh, no.

I think it was, like, 16 or something.

16? Really? Yeah.

It was, it was really low.

We'll have to dig out the number, but, uh, it's been a long time since then.

Oh, fabulous.

And, and podcasting has exploded.

Well, I've been following Farnam Street-

Oh.

... devotedly.

I appreciate that.

Um, and, uh, it's always, always interesting.

Very, very interesting on, and ...

I mean, the whole question of the decision sciences, uh, is, I think, at the moment, completely critical.

...

I keep hearing people saying, "You will say to your AI, 'Find me a skiing holiday,' and it will provide you with the perfect skiing holiday." And I keep saying, "People don't decide like that." When you allow tech bros too much power over decision-making, along with their running dog lackeys in kind of management consultancy, you're optimizing for something which may be very, very distant from what your real-world customers really care about.

What makes Dyson so effective at advertising?

Actually, it's, it's not advertising, it's marketing and it's customer experience.

What's the difference between marketing and advertising?

Advertising is a subordinate part of marketing, and-

Do you think we're looking for efficiency in the wrong place?

We usually do, and so you focus too heavily on cost reduction and too little on value creation.

What are the rules of good copy? If I asked you to teach me how to write good copy, how would you do that?

I think a large part of it comes down to... (instrumental music plays)

So we first.

...

We were talking about this in the elevator.

It was nine years ago.

Sheesh.

Back when podcasting wasn't even a thing.

We must be able to dig out the original content, presumably.

Yeah.

What was it? It was your podcast number 47 or something, was it?

Oh, no.

I think it was, like, 16 or something.

16? Really? Yeah.

It was, it was really low.

We'll have to dig out the number, but, uh, it's been a long time since then.

Oh, fabulous.

And, and podcasting has exploded.

Well, I've been following Farnam Street-

Oh.

... devotedly.

I appreciate that.

Um, and, uh, it's always, always interesting.

Very, very interesting on, and ...

I mean, the whole question of the decision sciences, uh, is, I think, at the moment, completely critical.