Sep 14, 2026 · 1 hr 16 min · 12 segments
Who stood in the bush? Who wrestled Jacob? Who bears the Name and still gets sent by Yahweh? Matt Foreman and Doug Van Dorn walk the biblical theology of The Angel of the LORD—the Word, the Name, the…
Matt ForemanGuest
Doug Van DornHost
[laughs] So, uh, you know, you and I, we w- we were f- you know, friends, um, I suppose for the first 10 years or so when we were in our old association of churches.
And then, uh, we kind of got to become closer friends because we started talking about some of the stuff I was reading with, uh, Dr. Heiser before...
This was before Unseen Realm ever came out, and there were two things that I had really focused on, wanted to focus on.
And then started talking to you about, um, this is my memory, about the angel of the Lord.
And the things that I had read, he had only done maybe, I don't know, two or three chapters in that book on the angel.
I mean, I, I, I can still remember thinking, "How come I never heard this before?" I went to Bible school s- uh, college, Bethel College, took Bible classes.
I went to Denver Seminary, and I never heard anything even remotely like this, uh, that people were talking about in terms of this figure in the Old Testament, the angel of the Lord, actually being, uh, Christ.
Um, 'cause this is not a new idea, but nevertheless, you were kind of smitten by the whole idea as well, and we s- we decided we wanted to do a book.
I'd like to know kinda your memory of this, 'cause this was a long time ago, uh-
Maybe as far back as 2012, but I, I re- what I remember is I was preaching through Exodus.
We were talking on the phone and comparing notes, and, you know, you s- you sent me a couple articles.
And then the more you just look into it, and especially the more you look into the history of interpretation, you begin to realize this is a really big subject.
[laughs] So, uh, you know, you and I, we w- we were f- you know, friends, um, I suppose for the first 10 years or so when we were in our old association of churches.
And then, uh, we kind of got to become closer friends because we started talking about some of the stuff I was reading with, uh, Dr. Heiser before...
This was before Unseen Realm ever came out, and there were two things that I had really focused on, wanted to focus on.
And then started talking to you about, um, this is my memory, about the angel of the Lord.
And the things that I had read, he had only done maybe, I don't know, two or three chapters in that book on the angel.
I mean, I, I, I can still remember thinking, "How come I never heard this before?" I went to Bible school s- uh, college, Bethel College, took Bible classes.
I went to Denver Seminary, and I never heard anything even remotely like this, uh, that people were talking about in terms of this figure in the Old Testament, the angel of the Lord, actually being, uh, Christ.
Um, 'cause this is not a new idea, but nevertheless, you were kind of smitten by the whole idea as well, and we s- we decided we wanted to do a book.
I'd like to know kinda your memory of this, 'cause this was a long time ago, uh-
Maybe as far back as 2012, but I, I re- what I remember is I was preaching through Exodus.
We were talking on the phone and comparing notes, and, you know, you s- you sent me a couple articles.
And then the more you just look into it, and especially the more you look into the history of interpretation, you begin to realize this is a really big subject.
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