Jun 5, 2026 · 1 hr 52 min · 10 segments
For more than 20 years, Dave Meslin has been a community organizer focused primarily on three topics: sustainable transportation, visual communication in public spaces and electoral reform. Or, as…
Dave MeslinGuestMarkHostIn the case of the maple syrup, you were very much distilling community while you were distilling maple syrup.
Dave, you've written that we, quote, expect too much of our leaders and too little of the masses, end quote.
Could you say what you mean by that? And what's the danger in each case?
There's a lot of different angles to that because in part of the book, I take it a step further and suggest that, you know, perhaps we shouldn't have leaders or at least that the shape of power shouldn't be pointy with a single leader at the top.
So, I mean, I think the most general answer to that would be that we embrace a hero culture.
And the danger of hero culture is that most people don't see themself as the hero, right? So if you believe that good things happen when the hero arrives and makes it happen, you don't really have a role to play as an individual, except maybe cheering.
And let's be honest, it's almost always a guy, right? So it's like, this is the guy who's going to fix it.
First of all, it's very male dominated and it's very embedded in our cultural DNA.
In the case of the maple syrup, you were very much distilling community while you were distilling maple syrup.
Dave, you've written that we, quote, expect too much of our leaders and too little of the masses, end quote.
Could you say what you mean by that? And what's the danger in each case?
There's a lot of different angles to that because in part of the book, I take it a step further and suggest that, you know, perhaps we shouldn't have leaders or at least that the shape of power shouldn't be pointy with a single leader at the top.
So, I mean, I think the most general answer to that would be that we embrace a hero culture.
And the danger of hero culture is that most people don't see themself as the hero, right? So if you believe that good things happen when the hero arrives and makes it happen, you don't really have a role to play as an individual, except maybe cheering.
And let's be honest, it's almost always a guy, right? So it's like, this is the guy who's going to fix it.
First of all, it's very male dominated and it's very embedded in our cultural DNA.
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