Ryan Holiday on the Case for Stoicism in an Age of Distraction

You said the interest in stoicism seems to pick up when the world feels out of control, and you were just talking about the chaos of the ancients.

Yeah.

Do you think that's what's happening now, or do, or is it linked to that in your mind?

Yeah, I mean, look, uh, one of the great stoics is Epictetus, who is...

Actually, two of the great stoics.

We have Epictetus and Seneca.

Both lived through the reign of Nero.

So you can imagine Seneca and Epictetus turning to stoicism when they're like, "The guy in charge is insane, and there's not that much we can do about it." Um, so, so I think-

Mm-hmm.

Epictetus w- was a slave, too.

Epic- Yeah, Epictetus has been slaved.

He, he spends the first 30 years of his life as a slave.

It's really interesting just how much of the social spectrum the, the stoics end up taking up.

You know, we have, uh, Epictetus on one end of the social spectrum, and then he's the primary philosophical influence on Marcus Aurelius.

You know, Marcus Aurelius lives through a plague.

He lives through these wars.

I do think, like, when everything is awesome and, uh, everything is going well, you know, it's a little easier to be an Epicurean.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs] It's, um, it's when it feels like things are changing fast, it feels like they're falling apart, when the political system isn't working.

Like, what do you do when you wake up and the world is filled with injustices and cruelty and stupidity and corruption, and you know that it's wrong, and you would like to think that everyone agrees with you that it's wrong, but that's actually a minority view? You know, I, I think there's a, a reason that the stoics are resonating today, but it's worth going back and thinking, you know, uh, 250 years ago at the time of the Founding, the most popular play in the world is this play called Cato by Joseph Addison, which is all about stoic philosophy, and all the Founders n- know it by heart.

Like, in the way that we could sing lines from Hamilton today, George Washington is quoting lines from Cato in his letters.

He puts on Cato at Valley Forge.

So it's in the, you know, the times that try men's souls that, that I think we turn to Our forebearers who, who went through difficulties and, and we try to go, "Well, what did they figure out about getting through this?" And, and I think stoicism has long been that.

Absolutely.

You said the interest in stoicism seems to pick up when the world feels out of control, and you were just talking about the chaos of the ancients.

Yeah.

Do you think that's what's happening now, or do, or is it linked to that in your mind?

Yeah, I mean, look, uh, one of the great stoics is Epictetus, who is...

Actually, two of the great stoics.

We have Epictetus and Seneca.

Both lived through the reign of Nero.

So you can imagine Seneca and Epictetus turning to stoicism when they're like, "The guy in charge is insane, and there's not that much we can do about it." Um, so, so I think-

Mm-hmm.

Epictetus w- was a slave, too.

Epic- Yeah, Epictetus has been slaved.

He, he spends the first 30 years of his life as a slave.

It's really interesting just how much of the social spectrum the, the stoics end up taking up.

You know, we have, uh, Epictetus on one end of the social spectrum, and then he's the primary philosophical influence on Marcus Aurelius.

You know, Marcus Aurelius lives through a plague.

He lives through these wars.

I do think, like, when everything is awesome and, uh, everything is going well, you know, it's a little easier to be an Epicurean.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs] It's, um, it's when it feels like things are changing fast, it feels like they're falling apart, when the political system isn't working.

Like, what do you do when you wake up and the world is filled with injustices and cruelty and stupidity and corruption, and you know that it's wrong, and you would like to think that everyone agrees with you that it's wrong, but that's actually a minority view? You know, I, I think there's a, a reason that the stoics are resonating today, but it's worth going back and thinking, you know, uh, 250 years ago at the time of the Founding, the most popular play in the world is this play called Cato by Joseph Addison, which is all about stoic philosophy, and all the Founders n- know it by heart.

Like, in the way that we could sing lines from Hamilton today, George Washington is quoting lines from Cato in his letters.

He puts on Cato at Valley Forge.

So it's in the, you know, the times that try men's souls that, that I think we turn to Our forebearers who, who went through difficulties and, and we try to go, "Well, what did they figure out about getting through this?" And, and I think stoicism has long been that.

Absolutely.