Gaius Musonius Rufus

You don't need the broken leg story to see why the question might have had a bit of weight behind it.

While he was in Rome, Epictetus studied with Musonius Rufus, one of the major Stoic teachers of the period.

This wasn't philosophy as a pile of quotes with a sunset behind them, it was taught in rooms face to face with people arguing, asking stupid questions, making excuses and being corrected.

Basically education.

Just as we get stronger by lifting heavier things than we're used to, the way to get wiser is to read books that are above our level and keep at it.

"If you accomplish something good with hard work," Musonius Rufus tells us, "the labor passes quickly, but the good endures." And we know this through our study of Stoicism.

Epictetus is tougher to read than Marcus.

M- Musonius Rufus is tougher to read and understand than Epictetus.

Doesn't mean we don't study them.

It just means we spend a little more time with them, a little more time working through each idea.

Dan of Queens, New York City.

And we are continuing our discussion of the lectures of Musonius Rufus, the Stoic philosopher who famously trained Epictetus.

Last week, we talked about his view that practice is more important than theory.

So putting things into practice is more important than theory.

The reason for this is that men who enter the other professions have not had their souls corrupted beforehand and have not learned the opposite of what they are going to be taught.

But the ones who start out to study philosophy have been born and reared in an environment filled with corruption and evil, and therefore turn to virtue in such a state that they need a longer and more thorough training.

Musonius Rufus, Lecture 6.

So in this reading, I do enjoy that because the idea that if you don't, kind of how Epictetus says you can't learn what you think you already know, that sort of an idea, you already have a way of living kind of imprinted on you by what you observe, what the way your parents may have raised you or society influenced you and commercials and so on and so forth.

I mean, it can't be any more clear than that.

There are three major Stoics, the ones that I mentioned, Seneca, Epictetus, and then Epictetus' teacher, Musonius Rufus.

All three of them very clearly said it, so forget it.

The second problem is Stoicism with a dollar sign.

And B, they engage in meaningful projects.

And it turns out that a meaningful project is a project that involves other people, that benefits other people.

So the most meaningful kinds of professions you can engage in are journalist, that would be one, you know, teacher, doctor, you know, all those kinds of things.

Because what are you, politician, if you're doing it well, right? Those are the kinds of things that are pro-social, that help society.

the enchiridion is a summary of theoretical and applied stoicism epictetus was the son of a woman slave born between fifty and sixty a d at hierapolis in phrygia we do not know how he came to rome He was there as slave to one of Nero's distinguished freedmen who served as the emperor's secretary.

While still in service, Epictetus took courses with Musonius Rufus, the fashionable Stoic philosopher, who was impressed by the sincere and dynamic personality of the young slave and trained him to be a Stoic philosopher.

Epictetus became a free man and began teaching philosophy on street corners in the market, but he was not successful.

During the rule of Domitian, Epictetus, with many other philosophers, was exiled from Rome, probably between 89 and 92 AD.

Another day, another dollar.

yeah yeah this week we are going to continue our discussion of the lectures of musonius rufus we've talked about in the last few episodes uh his views on whether women should study philosophy and whether sons and daughters should receive the same kind of training and this week we are going to do lecture number five which is on which is more effective theory or practice So I believe we're just going to jump in and read most of that letter and then have a discussion afterwards.

Does that work for you, Dan?

Yes.

Theory, which teaches how one should act, is related to application and comes first, since it is not possible to do anything really well unless its practical execution be in harmony with theory.

In effectiveness, however, practice takes precedence over theory as being more influential in leading men to action.

Musonius Rufus,

Lecture 5.

Thank you for listening, and we hope this helps.

There was a famous exchange between the Stoic philosopher Musonius Rufus and the king of Syria.

The king traveled to ask Musonius, is it appropriate for a leader to study philosophy? Not only is it appropriate, Musonius said, but for no one is it more appropriate.

What is the leader's duty, Musonius asked, and then he answered, to be able to protect and benefit his people.

He was there as slave to one of Nero's distinguished freedmen who served as the emperor's secretary.

While still in service, Epictetus took courses with Musonius Rufus, the fashionable Stoic philosopher, who was impressed by the sincere and dynamic personality of the young slave and trained him to be a Stoic philosopher.

Epictetus became a free man and began teaching philosophy on street corners in the market, but he was not successful.

During the rule of Domitian, Epictetus, with many other philosophers, was exiled from Rome, probably between eighty-nine and ninety-two AD.