Sep 29, 2026 · 46 min · 10 segments
There is no shortage of footage immortalizing the men who spoke at the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, when 250,000 Americans gathered beneath the Lincoln Memorial to call for an end to…
Marcia ChatelainGuest
Sullivan SummerHost
In hearing you talk about this, both the book and putting the book together, and also your own kind of personal motivations and the emotion that kind of runs underneath as a current, number one, I could feel the emotion in the book.

So towards the very end of the book, we actually have the March on Washington, right? Like we sort of like work our way to that actual actual moment.

Like, I think that this is this is also the thing that like is low key my specialty.

Like, what if it wasn't awesome? And, you know, with my first such a letdown, like, welcome to existence.

Now, you know, I think about this in terms of and I think this is where being a college professor really informs my thinking is.

are so obsessed with Oklahoma, the football, the traditions, right, of that kind of big state school.

Then I taught at Georgetown, which was like this elite school that kids who were there really wanted to go.

And now I teach at Penn and everyone's caught up in the like, you know, whatever it is of being in an Ivy League school, right? Like there's so much that.

And this is where it all collapses, right? We spend so much time pressuring young people into like doing the right things to get into college.

And then they get into college and they're like, wait, what am I supposed to do here? Or this is a letdown or this isn't fun.

In hearing you talk about this, both the book and putting the book together, and also your own kind of personal motivations and the emotion that kind of runs underneath as a current, number one, I could feel the emotion in the book.

So towards the very end of the book, we actually have the March on Washington, right? Like we sort of like work our way to that actual actual moment.

Like, I think that this is this is also the thing that like is low key my specialty.

Like, what if it wasn't awesome? And, you know, with my first such a letdown, like, welcome to existence.

Now, you know, I think about this in terms of and I think this is where being a college professor really informs my thinking is.

are so obsessed with Oklahoma, the football, the traditions, right, of that kind of big state school.

Then I taught at Georgetown, which was like this elite school that kids who were there really wanted to go.

And now I teach at Penn and everyone's caught up in the like, you know, whatever it is of being in an Ivy League school, right? Like there's so much that.

And this is where it all collapses, right? We spend so much time pressuring young people into like doing the right things to get into college.

And then they get into college and they're like, wait, what am I supposed to do here? Or this is a letdown or this isn't fun.
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