Mar 24, 2026 · 1 hr 6 min · 20 segments
“The issue's not the truth. The issue is the reality of the truth." Nick and his reporting team try to piece apart how much of Michael’s story is true. SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! https://mood.com Promo…
Robin Amer
Allison HerreraGuest
Michael ThompsonGuest
Nick van der KolkHost
Brian Kranz
Anya Schultz
You had asked me to record an update to go through all the reporting our team has been doing, so here it is.

First, you may remember that Michael describes having lived for a time on an Indian reservation in California, specifically the Big Pine Paiute Reservation.

My mother was attempting to raise a number of kids by herself, which is ultimately how I ended up on a reservation.

We found a letter that his mother sent to the parole board in 2011 that describes how she sent him to live there with relatives for a time.

Then when Michael describes the events that led up to him being arrested for this 1973 double homicide, he says that his sister Pat recorded a phone call with him that was taped by the district attorney's office.

She told the district attorney she knew about these two bodies that were buried, and she called me on the phone, and district attorney's investigator was recording it.

We attempted to talk to Michael's sister, who is still alive, but we didn't hear back from her.

We did, however, find court records that described a series of phone calls that were taped by the Orange County DA's office and used as evidence in this trial.

According to court records, this included a call between Michael and his sister.

Now, we found a transcript from the trial where the prosecutor says there's a tape of Michael admitting to being involved in the murders.

We tried really hard to get these tapes ourselves, but unfortunately, the DA's office told us they don't have them anymore.

And we found other records indicating that the Orange County Superior Court system either destroyed or discarded evidence from this trial, which included the tapes and the transcripts, back in 2014.

So we have Michael saying one thing about what's on these tapes and the prosecutor saying the opposite, essentially.

But because we couldn't get the tapes ourselves, we can't say for sure what's in them.

Then at one point, Michael told you that he smuggled weapons into prison during this ongoing gang war between the Aryan Brotherhood and the Black Guerrilla family.

I mean, you want to remember, the opposition here, their attorneys are smuggling guns in.

There was a very prominent case back in 1971 where a lawyer named Steven Bingham was accused of doing this.

He, like, went on the lam in Canada and was a fugitive for 13 years, but it's, like, way too much to go into right now.

Anyway, the point is, although he was accused of doing this, he was ultimately acquitted.

He did cooperate extensively with law enforcement and testified in at least five murder trials that we can find records for.

You had asked me to record an update to go through all the reporting our team has been doing, so here it is.

First, you may remember that Michael describes having lived for a time on an Indian reservation in California, specifically the Big Pine Paiute Reservation.

My mother was attempting to raise a number of kids by herself, which is ultimately how I ended up on a reservation.

We found a letter that his mother sent to the parole board in 2011 that describes how she sent him to live there with relatives for a time.

Then when Michael describes the events that led up to him being arrested for this 1973 double homicide, he says that his sister Pat recorded a phone call with him that was taped by the district attorney's office.

She told the district attorney she knew about these two bodies that were buried, and she called me on the phone, and district attorney's investigator was recording it.

We attempted to talk to Michael's sister, who is still alive, but we didn't hear back from her.

We did, however, find court records that described a series of phone calls that were taped by the Orange County DA's office and used as evidence in this trial.

According to court records, this included a call between Michael and his sister.

Now, we found a transcript from the trial where the prosecutor says there's a tape of Michael admitting to being involved in the murders.

We tried really hard to get these tapes ourselves, but unfortunately, the DA's office told us they don't have them anymore.

And we found other records indicating that the Orange County Superior Court system either destroyed or discarded evidence from this trial, which included the tapes and the transcripts, back in 2014.

So we have Michael saying one thing about what's on these tapes and the prosecutor saying the opposite, essentially.

But because we couldn't get the tapes ourselves, we can't say for sure what's in them.

Then at one point, Michael told you that he smuggled weapons into prison during this ongoing gang war between the Aryan Brotherhood and the Black Guerrilla family.

I mean, you want to remember, the opposition here, their attorneys are smuggling guns in.

There was a very prominent case back in 1971 where a lawyer named Steven Bingham was accused of doing this.

He, like, went on the lam in Canada and was a fugitive for 13 years, but it's, like, way too much to go into right now.

Anyway, the point is, although he was accused of doing this, he was ultimately acquitted.

He did cooperate extensively with law enforcement and testified in at least five murder trials that we can find records for.
The rest of this transcript — segmented and speaker-labeled, so you land on the exact moment something was said
Search every transcript — by keyword, by phrase, or by meaning, across every show Radar indexes
Trends — what is surging across podcasts, measured against its own baseline
Alerts — when a name you follow appears in a newly indexed episode
No account is needed to search Radar.