... organization, uh, and a, a racist one.

That requires clarification.

It's racist now, but, um, you had mentioned a moment ago about the '70s and the difference in the prison system.

So back then you had the Aryan Brotherhood, you had the Mexican Mafia, the Eme, La Eme.

You had the Black Panthers, Black Guerrilla Family, the Texas Syndicate, the Nuestra Familia, and other, Sibenese Liberation Army.

We were all in Folsom together.

Um, and so, uh, the structure was completely different.

Hmm.

Stay tuned afterward for an interview with show creator Nick Vander Kolk and Snap producer John Facile.

You find out what your beliefs are when they're put to the test.

If they don't stand up to the test, then you damn well better reevaluate to determine what your beliefs actually are, because otherwise you're just living a facade.

When you step forward and take a stand for something, there's intimate knowledge associated with that stand.

Elsewise, you wouldn't be taking it, you see? My intent is not to stand against anything, but stand for, and there's a difference.

It's about relationship.

Whether you're riding a 2,000-pound bull that doesn't want you on its back, or you're in a knife fight, there's an intimacy there.

It's like a light just kind of pours out of him, and I was determined to help that light get out into the world.

This is episode 10, Three Strikes.

Here's the sequence of events.

They release me.

I call Ken.

I said, I'm getting out.

He said, you got anybody picking you up? No.

So he drives over from Clear Lake, late at night, picks me up, brings me over here.

Obviously, if there are updates on that, we should talk about that.

What was your vibe of him, you know, in that early time?

Well, I actually thought we were cut from the same cloth.

I mean, he grew up, as I did, raising cattle and doing ranch work and mending fences and pig hunting and deer hunting and everything that goes along with that environment.

It was really the ecology of his life that appealed to me.

And he struck me as, like me, that when you give your word, that's good enough.

A handshake is how you deal with people as opposed to written contracts.

I liked his work ethic.

I mean, I did have some issues that were heart-related, but it had nothing to do with my ability to work or anything else.

Trying to figure out what is actually going on.

Yeah, it's like I tell people.

Do your homework.

It's really that simple.

Nothing that I speak about is vague or ambiguous as it relates to the facts.

And by that I mean it's all documented.

That's all they have to do is do their homework.

story? Like, what did you actually say to her?

What happened, actually?

I was trying to help guys prepare for the board and do different things.

There was a guy that was going to the board the next morning, and I was sitting on a bench with him, going over some paperwork to help him prepare for the board in the morning.

Mexican Mafia, contract, came from behind me.

My fault, I shouldn't have let him get behind me, but I did, and he did a roundhouse kick from behind me, took me off the back of the bench I was sitting on, and I went semi-unconscious.

I could still hear, but I couldn't see.

He grabbed my hair in his hand and he pulled my head up and he reached in with the box cutter to slice my throat.

I just thought, okay, well, I guess I was wrong about that.

Like, what what was he like?

He was what I would refer to as a soldier.

He was one of those individuals that essentially wanted to be recognized for his contribution to the organization.

You see that a lot where you have individuals.

You have certain individuals that every time something comes up, they're volunteering to take the lead on it.

And Curtis was one of those.

Curtis had gotten out, so he made a trip up north to Eureka.

What were you saying in the lectures?

What did being a member involve at this point? Like, what kind of activities were you doing at that

stage? You know, I could do whatever I wanted to do.

While some members were more influential, like TD, all members were considered equal.

So if somebody wanted to go do something, they went and did it.

They didn't need permission.

I like that.

They're making a lot of money, a lot of money.

And was it effective? I mean, did he stop going after you?

Chapter one, Chaplain England.

They sent me to Tracy, DVI.

At that time, it was known as Gladiator School.

So I went to DVI and I got a job as the chaplain's clerk, which was a blessing.

How I got the job with him is he wanted his library refurbished.

And, you know, the bookshelves and murals on the wall and all that.

So I went in and I did that for him.

Where was Yogi at this point?

Was there any piece of you that was hoping that maybe it could blossom into a relationship?

No.

I had no interest whatsoever.

I was married to Bridell.

But I mean it was a marriage of convenience so that she could get her son back and once that happened we kind of parted ways.

So that was never an issue.

My idea was to help her and that's exactly what I was doing.

You just married them?

Would you mind sharing that story?

No, I don't mind sharing.

Let me do it like this.

That sound you hear is my glass case.

Now I'm putting my peepers on.

And those are pages turning that you now hear.

It was mid-morning and a boy came running up to me and pointed at a group of men standing by the bridge that crossed the creek.

Why did he ask you to lie down?