Sir Graham Henry On Failure, Ego And Handing Over Control

What's your experience with wild ambition and fierce compassion?

I think you're probably mellower with age.

You know, you've got wild ambition, and as you get older and you learn, you learn that it's not about you, it's about others.

Well, it's always about you, isn't it? [laughs] But, um, but if you can help others, uh, who are also in the group, uh, to grow and, and take ownership and take responsibility, uh, and that shared responsibility, um, if you've got shared responsibility, you're v- more likely to achieve that, that growing ambition that you've got.

Mm-hmm.

So, so from my experiences, um, I had a lot of ambition, but as I grew and, and as the task got more difficult, I started to understand that it was growing the other people with me that was important, and getting other people to help me grow those younger people, so they took more ownership of, of whatever you're trying to achieve and took more responsibility.

And I think, um, the mentoring in the group is hugely important.

Um, having more experienced people, uh, mentoring less experienced people made a massive difference to the organizations I was in.

And, uh, not only helped the young guys or the younger people in the group, but also helped the older people 'cause they, they enjoyed that experience and they got a lot from that.

So both people grew and both people, um, got a lot of, lot, lot of benefits from that mentoring system.

So I hope, Kaila, I've answered the question.

We've only just begun, Ted.

Oh.

You've given me an answer, but it's raised more questions for me.

Uh, so you mentioned that you kind of evolved this over time, that you used to, um, you didn't previously have as much of a kind of cultivating growth in the players and, and shifted more to how they can take more ownership.

How did you learn that? What prompted that shift, and how did you learn what to do instead, or what worked instead?

Well, just, just qualify the first answer wee bit first.

Great.

Again, when I was first, uh, coaching rugby and, and, and teaching and I finished up being a school principal, I was doing a lot of different jobs and you become very, very busy.

You haven't got ti- time to turn around, uh, and so you just get things done.

And, um, and I think, I think it was part of the, part of the world anyway in those days.

In the 1970s and 1980s and the 1990s, um, that's how people ran their lives, I guess.

They just got on and got things done.

But the education system changed and young people changed, and they want to have more of a say anyway.

And, and you learn from, you learn from- ... times that you failed.

What's your experience with wild ambition and fierce compassion?

I think you're probably mellower with age.

You know, you've got wild ambition, and as you get older and you learn, you learn that it's not about you, it's about others.

Well, it's always about you, isn't it? [laughs] But, um, but if you can help others, uh, who are also in the group, uh, to grow and, and take ownership and take responsibility, uh, and that shared responsibility, um, if you've got shared responsibility, you're v- more likely to achieve that, that growing ambition that you've got.

Mm-hmm.

So, so from my experiences, um, I had a lot of ambition, but as I grew and, and as the task got more difficult, I started to understand that it was growing the other people with me that was important, and getting other people to help me grow those younger people, so they took more ownership of, of whatever you're trying to achieve and took more responsibility.

And I think, um, the mentoring in the group is hugely important.

Um, having more experienced people, uh, mentoring less experienced people made a massive difference to the organizations I was in.

And, uh, not only helped the young guys or the younger people in the group, but also helped the older people 'cause they, they enjoyed that experience and they got a lot from that.

So both people grew and both people, um, got a lot of, lot, lot of benefits from that mentoring system.

So I hope, Kaila, I've answered the question.

We've only just begun, Ted.

Oh.

You've given me an answer, but it's raised more questions for me.

Uh, so you mentioned that you kind of evolved this over time, that you used to, um, you didn't previously have as much of a kind of cultivating growth in the players and, and shifted more to how they can take more ownership.

How did you learn that? What prompted that shift, and how did you learn what to do instead, or what worked instead?

Well, just, just qualify the first answer wee bit first.

Great.

Again, when I was first, uh, coaching rugby and, and, and teaching and I finished up being a school principal, I was doing a lot of different jobs and you become very, very busy.

You haven't got ti- time to turn around, uh, and so you just get things done.

And, um, and I think, I think it was part of the, part of the world anyway in those days.

In the 1970s and 1980s and the 1990s, um, that's how people ran their lives, I guess.

They just got on and got things done.

But the education system changed and young people changed, and they want to have more of a say anyway.

And, and you learn from, you learn from- ... times that you failed.