Wayne Smith

I, I think John Mitchell's actually signed for longer than that.

Uh, Wayne Smith, uh, Gregor Townsend, and Leon McDonald.

So when you start listing those names, is there anyone that even stands out for you, Colly, when you think about being the national coach of England?

No, Ben.

Um, John Mitchell, I'm, I'm pretty sure.

Franco Smith's an interesting one, but the way he plays, but I'm not sure.

They, look, in short, Wayne Smith, they've, England have tried loads of times to get Wayne Smith, never done.

Leon McDonald, no.

And what happened? No one had the gumption to say they're the right people.

Graham Henry, Steve Hansen, um, Wayne Smith, 2007, they did have the gumption to say, "We're sticking by this group," and they went on to win the next two World Cups.

So, you know, sport is about results, don't get me wrong.

Re- and, and we, we all know when you get into it, it's a very cutthroat business, but you also are very aware of the challenge of coaching any international side, and it's very different.

Simon Middleton, if you're available.

Wayne Smith, if you're available.

I'm just putting it out there.

Dave Vessels, you can do the thing.

Or the other Beaver.

I'm gonna go Smovey, Wayne Smith.

Ooh.

Do you remember who it was, Beaver?

Whereas they seem to play ...

I don't know, you remember when Robbie Deans was coaching the Crusaders and, uh, and Wayne Smith was, it was almost like kick the ball to the opposition and swarm up in a rugby league and wait for them to make a mistake.

It's two different mentalities here

hereThe problem now though, Marty, in the international game is that, you know, there's, the, the kicking game is so critical now.

I've taken lots on board from all the coaches I've had down the years.

But with Smithy, that's Wayne Smith, it's fair to say you had the complete package.

Technically, he was superb.

His people skills were fantastic.

For me, Smithy was close to the ultimate coach.

I felt deeply for him when he wasn't reappointed.

So Wayne Smith, if I'm not mistaken, was head coach of the All Blacks from 1999 until 2001. and I think there was a phase there where I think they lose five test matches in a row if I'm not mistaken or they lose a few test matches and Wayne Smith didn't think he was the man for the job and so he reapplies for his role and he's not reappointed and then here Wayne Smith has some praise for Jonah Lomu there was a lot of comment early on in the season about Jonah's low work rate this is the year season 2000 season He was criticised about his defence generally and his inability to turn and take kicks.

When we sat down and talked about it, I found he was receptive to feedback, always willing to work harder to improve his game.

I think that's like, you know, having a professional career that I've had, that has been a really...

It's probably the most... unspoken about um rule really is that you don't have to get on to perform like i think there's this bit of a misconception that yeah you know like people talk about culture right yeah i'm heavy in and that in the moment in terms of coaching and women's sport and that is you know the famous Wayne Smith line of girls like boys need to play good to feel good where girls need to feel good to play good and that that kind of sits on that culture side of things like in terms of how he uses that but for me it's like high performance culture you don't have to be friends you just have to respect each other for what you can do and that's that's probably what I learned um from rowing like and you form uh you form a I guess what you would call a a loose form of friendship out of respect over time because like those eight boys that we put in that rowing boat together, we are so different.

And, but still to this day, there's not one of those boys that I wouldn't, that I would walk past in the street.

Like I would always stop and give them my time because of what we went through collectively together.

And then I went to John Mitchell.

Then to Warren Gatland.

You know, I had Dave Rennie, Wayne Smith.

Yeah, Vern Cotter, Joe Smith.

Mm.

All the work with Wayne Smith and then our fans, our-

Mm-hmm

...

I think rubbing shoulders with some of the best coaches in the world.

I was lucky enough, you know, with Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen being both Canterbury people, you know, I've been rubbing shoulders with them, you know, since I was a young player, really, and a young coach.

And both of those gentlemen have helped me immensely.

Mm-hmm.