Film at Lincoln Center Podcast
Oct 9, 2026 · 30 min · 12 segments
At the 64th New York Film Festival, Ava DuVernay, Ambassador Jeff Flake, editor/producer Spencer Averick, producers Tammy Garnes and Paul Garnes, and Sherrilyn Ifill, founding director of the 14th…
Sherrilyn IfillGuestSpencer AverickGuestTammy GarnesGuest
Paul GarnesGuest
Jeff FlakeGuest[audience applauding]
I kind of feel like the ending song.
Y- so with all that is said and done, why do we have a insurrectionist in the White House?
[laughing]
Um, but I think one of the reasons, one of the things that the film tries to look at is, you know, uh, that I think, um, Professor Ifill says so powerfully, is there was an opportunity to evoke, um, the promises and the protections of the 14th Amendment with Section 3, the insurrection portion, that may have allowed the country to look more closely at what we might have been getting ourselves into.
Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't used in the way that our, that the second founders had hoped.
This, this actually comes back to our responsibility as citizens to know about our founding document.
Um, and I, and I don't mean to, to, uh, condemn anyone in particular because, you know, I've been a lawyer for a very long time.
I don't think the justices on the Supreme Court knew about it before they heard the case.
So, um, I think for this moment where I think many people feel very, uh, that we're kind of disabled from being able to stop something from happening that we feel is contrary to what our country is supposed to be, there's a part of it that is about us knowing what tools we actually have.
And so I think, um, you know, your question is a provocative one, but I think it's a question that we have to ask ourselves, and also it requires the humility of a, of, uh, understanding that those people f- face down a moment that, you know, was even more challenging than the moment we're facing.
They, they, maybe they knew some stuff that, that thankfully we don't know, you know, because we hadn't lived through what, what they lived through, a full-on fracture and a war that killed 600,000 people.
So they knew some things, and we have just completely memory holed them and what they left for us to help protect our republic.
[audience applauding]
I kind of feel like the ending song.
Y- so with all that is said and done, why do we have a insurrectionist in the White House?
[laughing]
Um, but I think one of the reasons, one of the things that the film tries to look at is, you know, uh, that I think, um, Professor Ifill says so powerfully, is there was an opportunity to evoke, um, the promises and the protections of the 14th Amendment with Section 3, the insurrection portion, that may have allowed the country to look more closely at what we might have been getting ourselves into.
Um, and it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't used in the way that our, that the second founders had hoped.
This, this actually comes back to our responsibility as citizens to know about our founding document.
Um, and I, and I don't mean to, to, uh, condemn anyone in particular because, you know, I've been a lawyer for a very long time.
I don't think the justices on the Supreme Court knew about it before they heard the case.
So, um, I think for this moment where I think many people feel very, uh, that we're kind of disabled from being able to stop something from happening that we feel is contrary to what our country is supposed to be, there's a part of it that is about us knowing what tools we actually have.
And so I think, um, you know, your question is a provocative one, but I think it's a question that we have to ask ourselves, and also it requires the humility of a, of, uh, understanding that those people f- face down a moment that, you know, was even more challenging than the moment we're facing.
They, they, maybe they knew some stuff that, that thankfully we don't know, you know, because we hadn't lived through what, what they lived through, a full-on fracture and a war that killed 600,000 people.
So they knew some things, and we have just completely memory holed them and what they left for us to help protect our republic.
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