Ambassador, how do you feel?

Yeah, I think it's less somebody think, well, if you have a divided government, that just negates any possibility to pass legislation because one party can't pass them through.

But if you look at what we've had, you know, the House majority for Republicans has been, you know, one or two seats depending on which month we were in in the past year.

With some pretty extreme Republicans holding the keys there.

And then in the Senate, obviously, you have filibuster, great filibuster still, that forces kind of compromise there.

So it's not that the divided government that produces the gridlock so much as... what might happen with investigations and how the president responds to that and whether there's going to be people pushing for impeachment and that kind of environment can make it less likely.

But divided government itself, we've seen a lot of important legislation happen with divided government.

I

Or this is a nasty place.

No, it's funny.

You mentioned John McCain before.

Obviously, I was just referred to usually as the other senator from Arizona.

Sure.

John McCain and the other guy.

Sure.

What about being conservative is so attractive to you? And are there any Democratic policies that you like?

And is that the type of activity that, again, someone who wants to be ambassador to an important country, as you said, should be engaged in before confirmation?

Well, you just heard from the man who was supposed to have sent those invoices.

So, yeah, or she sent those invoices, too, and he's claiming the opposite.

So I don't think that will go very far.

Like I said, this is not a distraction that the Trump administration is going to want to have for much longer.

So I can't imagine it goes much longer.

And if you're, you know, Marco Rubio, who is a very serious secretary of state and gave an incredible great speech in Greece, but to have to be there and to sit next to the ambassador when these things are going on, that's just got to be very difficult.

So if an ambassador is strapped for cash, would that hypothetically make that person more likely to be a target of foreign intelligence efforts? Is that part of why due diligence is needed here?

Uh, how did Ava approach you to, to be part of the film for you, uh, Stanley Blake, and then for you?

Well, when Ava talked to me, it was, it was more...

I was thinking birthright citizenship.

That's what, uh, to me, that has always been just a bedrock principle in what makes America, America.

Uh, the fact that, uh, after a generation, everyone who's here is the same, and that's been, uh, something that, uh, we have celebrated in this country for so long.

And to see it, uh, come under assault, uh, was just, uh, I mean, in the first Trump presidency and then this one, it was something that, uh, was deeply disturbing to me.

And so, uh, I was, uh, happy to participate on that.

[laughs]

... against Ambassador Guilfoyle?

Well, if this was a first thing, it would be something for, you know, officials here to say, "Well, we don't know what's going on.

Let us, uh, let us look into it." But, uh, this has been going on for a while.

There were allegations that she told a Greek official that we can take out any government, uh, we want.

Um, allegations that, uh, you know, she's treating her staff horribly and firing them if they don't bring her ice cubes at 4:00 a.m.-

[laughs]

... um, traveling around with a energy executive, uh, from the United States, doing, uh, deals in neighboring countries that, uh, might benefit them or others.

It, it just, uh, this is a l- latest in a long string, and I can tell you, that's an important part of the world.

I mean, things that are actually life and death for U.S. troops.

Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to talk to them, and President Trump should be.

But to vet them like he did and to roll off the red carpet, it was a bit obscene in some ways, particularly given the backdrop of much of our press not being able to cover it.

So, you know, the moral component of that as well was just... was just not good.

And we'll see what comes out of it.

I'm with you.

I think if there was something that could have come out of it, he would have announced it, particularly given purchase of farm goods and whatnot.

You think, though, that Republicans may do something that we have not seen before en masse, which is to say no and stand up to Trump if he tries to interfere with the midterms?

Like, how did he feel about that?

Yeah, well, he would never, you know, admit to anything that praised him.

He was just...

He was a humble man who worked hard and was extremely effective and well-respected.

I had the difficulty of going and following him in the Senate and trying to fill those shoes, and that was a difficult thing.

And then, as you mentioned in the intro, he came back after Senator McCain passed away and served for another few months, and I got to serve with him again.

And I can tell you, it was just a pleasure all the time.

Did you ask him for any kind of advice before you joined that chamber?

And so if you don't believe that this argument doesn't even get MAGA out, I assume you think it's the wrong message for independents.

Oh, certainly.

Certainly.

Yeah.

If you look at Arizona, you know, we we've nominated people on the MAGA right the last couple of cycles.

As a result, we have two Democratic senators, a Democrat governor.

Democratic Attorney General, Democrat Secretary of State, simply because people were kind of impersonating the president on this.

Does that change your view of that race? Would you still support him if obviously if you were in Texas?

Do you think there will be consequences for the fact that things haven't gotten better? Um, or do you think that the, there will be a migration away from, from the GOP?

GOP?I do.

I, I do.

Uh, you know, Donald Trump has led a charmed, uh, existence, uh, politically, and he seems to be given a pass, you know, that others aren't given.

And if you look around, his, his imitators have not done well.

Uh, in Georgia, uh, they haven't, uh, and in Arizona, where I come from.

Uh, Arizona is a very red state.

So I guess, what does success from the left wing of the Democratic Party tell us about what Americans actually might want right now?

Do you think right now the US is worse off than before the war started five months ago today?

Oh, immeasurably.

Yes, yes.

Uh, I think, you know, before the war started, there were a lot of economic levers that could be pulled which were really damaging Iran.

They were really damaged by the, the tough sanctions that were imposed.

And so I, I think the President, if he really wants to, you know, turn their nuclear clock back, you can do that economically.

Um, and we were doing that, frankly.

Yeah.

Ambassador, how are you seeing this?

Well, I would challenge the notion that the president, uh, doesn't care what the voters think.

Uh, he's always been cavalier about, uh, the, the service of our service members, uh, back from the time of criticizing John McCain for his service.

Uh, but he does care about what the voters think, and I think the most candid moment was when he said he didn't wanna be another Herbert Hoover, and that's why they launched into negotiations, uh, which in the end, uh, you know, factored terribly, uh, because it, it simply gave Iran, I think about $7 billion in revenue, uh, when the MOU was implemented to begin with.

But now we're just in a bad place.

I think the president does know this is gonna hurt deeply in the midterms, but he doesn't know how to get out of it.

There are just no good ways out.

... kind of of what the risk is or what the cost is, does that tell you something about what the administration is signaling? How are, how are you viewing that, that kind of diminishment and the objective of that?

Um, what do you think? Do you think selling the F35s is a good idea?

Well, these F35s, uh, most of them were, uh, partly created by Turkey.

Turkey was part of the F35 program, but then was kicked out of the program because they purchased a Russian's, uh, weapons system, the S400.

Uh, yes, I do think that we ought to, uh, sell F35s to Turkey, provided that Turkey complies with, uh, our statutory requirement.

And Congress is involved in this.

The administration can't do it alone.

Uh, but that Turkey get rid of the S400.

Why should Maine Democrats, um, take your word on that, given that they could argue that that standard has not consistently applied towards Republicans, given Trump, given Ken Paxton in Texas, and on and on?

So what is your message to voters who say defeating President Trump's agenda or Senator Collins is more important right now to justify a compartmentalization?

Now, when you, uh, put policy, uh, over character, uh, you're gonna come up on the short end.

And, and I think a lot of voters, uh, will look at the, not just the establishment, but the, uh, the progressive and other voices who are saying, "Vote for him at all costs.

Let's put this aside." And it, uh...

They'll say, "We don't wanna be burned twice here.

Uh, we're gonna go for somebody else." It's just, you shouldn't elevate policy, uh, over character.

Republicans back, uh, when I was still in the Senate and, uh, uh, Roy Moore from Alabama was the nominee, Republicans at that time did the right thing, and even some of them endorsed, I certainly did, the Democrat, Doug Jones, saying that that was better than dealing with somebody with that poor a character.

But how should her campaign handle this?

What are you most concerned about going into this next election?

Well, my party, the Republican Party, and under Donald Trump, continues to sow mistrust about elections.

And elections are run at local level, gratefully.

Hope that continues.

But when you look at Arizona, kind of a rite of passage for a Republican is to get nominated, you have to basically accept the president's view of the 2020 election.

And that's why you have, in a red state like Arizona, a Democratic governor, two Democrat senators, a Democratic attorney general, Democrat secretary of state, because the voters in Arizona are discerning.

And rightly so.

Because I'm not wholly convinced yet, but you know these guys a little bit better than I do.

I'm sorry.

No.

Uh, but, but, but he carries a big stick, and he's been able to, until this time, uh, identify any seat in the country, any Republican seat, and generate a primary opponent who will take you out.

And, but that is ending.

And so I think Republicans will migrate back to more familiar territory, uh, limited government, economic freedom, things...

Nobody believes really in this tariff agenda, for example.

They, this, this war, the way it's been conducted or negotiated, they don't agree with.

Like how do you weigh that individual race, and I, I genuinely mean this 'cause I, I, I've been working through this myself, versus the imperative of sort of having a, a Senate that will stop Trump from what he's trying to do?

But if the president puts his name on it, like he did tonight, does the president own this agreement?

Well, he should.

Uh, certainly, uh, JD didn't.

He's n- not the architect of it, although Lindsey Graham called him exactly that.

So what senators are, are saying, Republican senators, becomes perhaps more important than what the, the president says.

You know, going into the next couple of years, the president isn't running for office again, other senators are, and they'll look to distance themselves from it.

Th- this is about as popular as the anti-weaponization fund.

It-

Why?

Well, because it's the right thing to do.

And in the end, I'm confident that Maine voters will do that.

I don't think that this is the end of the scandals.

Uh, I think we'll hear more.

Uh, the question is will Democratic leaders encourage them to do the right thing? Uh, my party hasn't always done the right thing in the past.

I would argue we did the wrong thing in 2016, did the wrong thing in 2024.

... what is your response to Democrats who are fed up with that mindset?

ahead.Ambassador, what's your view of this new fund?

[laughs] Well, every- just when you think you've heard it all, I mean, something like this comes along.

Uh, it's...

This is unbelievable, it really is, to have the president of the country in a position where he can direct, and, and he's shown that he does like to do that.

Uh, [laughs] he directed the, uh, the former AG to prosecute his enemies.

And so yeah, uh, that, that's, it's unbelievable.

I, I just hope that, you know, and Michael Bennett, uh, you had just on, uh, who's, you know, you were asking him who should, you know, step in the breach here.

What do you make of that assessment?

I...

I had no choice, Stephen.

That rug really tied the room together.

How's retirement? You're about to find out.

Anything good you can say about it? Oh, yes, yes.

I get to spend a lot less time thinking about or talking about Donald Trump.

In a speech you gave on the floor, you gave this warning, and I'm gonna quote here, "Let us recognize as authoritarianism reasserts itself in country after country that we are by no means immune." Do you think you were right to be concerned?

Yes, uh, most definitely.

I'm not saying that we're under authoritarian system now.

We're not.

But w- that tendency, uh, and certainly Congress has abdicated its responsibility on a number of areas, whether it's war powers, whether it's tariffs, issues that rightly belong in the Senate, and senators have typically over time jealously guarded their prerogative.

But they have willingly kind of given that up, and you have a president who is eager to take just about everything he can get.

Now, every president, Republican and Democrat, will push some limits somewhere in terms of executive orders.

Mm-hmm

Do you think you were right to be concerned?

Yes, most definitely.

I'm not saying that we're under an authoritarian system now.

We're not.

But that tendency, and certainly Congress has abdicated its responsibility on a number of areas, whether it's war powers, whether it's tariffs, issues that rightly belong in the Senate.

And senators have typically, over time, jealously guarded their prerogative But they have willingly kind of given that up.

And you have a president who is eager to take just about everything he can get.

So, Senator Flake, I mean, why do you think he's so weak? Is he so weak?