Republic Book One: Polemarchus (331e-336a)

So kind of maybe jumping into the text.

So last week, uh, we had a wonderful introduction, uh, by Dr. Preu on the text overall, and then he kind of mapped out for us what was going on with Cephalus and, you know, why is this, this older man who, um, is also very wealthy and also very religious the first one that Socrates dialogues with, and also the first one to leave? And not just to stand aside and listen, but actually to go back to the sacrifices.

And so we're kinda pick up in the text in, in book one, is right here where Cephalus' son, uh, so Polemarchus or Polemarchus, he inherits, it says he inherits his father's argument.

And so he's going to take this and kind of pass the baton, if you will, or carry the baton on, and we're gonna get a, a few more definitions of justice.

But as like a preliminary, like, who is Polemarchus? Like, who is this character?

character?I think it's, it's, it's an interesting...

Uh, well, obviously he's Cephalus' son.

Cephalus is a, a foreigner, uh, lives in the Piraeus.

Most of those I'm assuming is, is in the previous podcast, but, you know, the Piraeus is a seaport town.

It's just, it's outside of Athens, so it's, it has a lot more of a, of a, um, sort of a f- uh, uh, it's a trading center, m- uh, a little bit more so than the town itself, and has a much, uh, uh, more foreign...

His, he...

So th- they are shield makers, apparently of some s- some scale.

Um, what were you saying? About 120 slaves working in their f- shield making factory, so it's quite a, quite a setup.

Um, but I, uh, he, he, he has a brother, Euthydemus, but apparently, uh, Polemarchus is the e- is the, the elder, so there's a little joke here when he says, "And shall I be your heir?" Um, and I, I...

The, what we know of this story later is two things.

One, that Dr. Graboski mentioned when we were just chatting a minute ago, is that Polemarchus is later referred to as a philosopher, so apparently this is a, a, um, this...

We can assume that this encounter with Socrates is a transformative to Polemarchus' life.

The other is that the Piraeus was the center of the revolt against the 30 tyrants, and that Polemarchus is executed in that revolt.

He's executed in the same manner as Socrates by, by drinking hemlock.

So Athens, uh, executes him just as it does Socrates, and I think that hangs over this discussion in a way that the readers will understand, that we don't necessarily pick up on, even to the sort of...

I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a, a poignancy even to the question, "Shall I be your heir?" And Cephalus says, "Of course." But he's not really, is he? Or if he does ever inherit, which I'm not sure that he even gets, lives to inherit, if he does, he doesn't live to inherit for long.

Yeah, there's like a certain tragedy in the text if you understand the historical setting, which obviously Plato writing later, everyone would have known.

So again, we have to keep in mind that these are, you know, there's some kind of historical kernel here, and there's all kinds of debates about how much that exists.

But what we do know is that there's a thick artistic veneer on these dialogues, right? Plato picks these interlocutors very particularly, and so if we see this kind of character, someone who's executed by the 30 tyrants, uh, someone who, say, is a foreigner, like there's a reason that Plato then says, "No, this is going to be a good interlocutor for Socrates for this type of discussion." And then I think trying to parse that out is really important to the text, and also understanding then that Socrates then, uh, somewhat tailors his rhetoric always to his interlocutor, and we'll see that a few times tonight, uh, where I think that's really tailored to Polemarchus.

Well, I think there's also a point here to say that death kind of hangs over the entirety of Book One in an interesting way, because Cephalus, he, he brings this up at the beginning that, you know, as you get in, and of course we, the, the, uh, uh, as you get closer to the end, uh, Socrates asks him about this, but it is, you know, Cephalus talks about starting up for fear in the night from, uh, that maybe these stories of a, of an afterlife are true, and that I think that's important to carry forward through The Republic in general, that there is a seriousness about the state of, of, of a man's soul that goes, uh, beyond even just life and death, but death hovers over these initial conversations.

So kind of maybe jumping into the text.

So last week, uh, we had a wonderful introduction, uh, by Dr. Preu on the text overall, and then he kind of mapped out for us what was going on with Cephalus and, you know, why is this, this older man who, um, is also very wealthy and also very religious the first one that Socrates dialogues with, and also the first one to leave? And not just to stand aside and listen, but actually to go back to the sacrifices.

And so we're kinda pick up in the text in, in book one, is right here where Cephalus' son, uh, so Polemarchus or Polemarchus, he inherits, it says he inherits his father's argument.

And so he's going to take this and kind of pass the baton, if you will, or carry the baton on, and we're gonna get a, a few more definitions of justice.

But as like a preliminary, like, who is Polemarchus? Like, who is this character?

character?I think it's, it's, it's an interesting...

Uh, well, obviously he's Cephalus' son.

Cephalus is a, a foreigner, uh, lives in the Piraeus.

Most of those I'm assuming is, is in the previous podcast, but, you know, the Piraeus is a seaport town.

It's just, it's outside of Athens, so it's, it has a lot more of a, of a, um, sort of a f- uh, uh, it's a trading center, m- uh, a little bit more so than the town itself, and has a much, uh, uh, more foreign...

His, he...

So th- they are shield makers, apparently of some s- some scale.

Um, what were you saying? About 120 slaves working in their f- shield making factory, so it's quite a, quite a setup.

Um, but I, uh, he, he, he has a brother, Euthydemus, but apparently, uh, Polemarchus is the e- is the, the elder, so there's a little joke here when he says, "And shall I be your heir?" Um, and I, I...

The, what we know of this story later is two things.

One, that Dr. Graboski mentioned when we were just chatting a minute ago, is that Polemarchus is later referred to as a philosopher, so apparently this is a, a, um, this...

We can assume that this encounter with Socrates is a transformative to Polemarchus' life.

The other is that the Piraeus was the center of the revolt against the 30 tyrants, and that Polemarchus is executed in that revolt.

He's executed in the same manner as Socrates by, by drinking hemlock.

So Athens, uh, executes him just as it does Socrates, and I think that hangs over this discussion in a way that the readers will understand, that we don't necessarily pick up on, even to the sort of...

I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a, a poignancy even to the question, "Shall I be your heir?" And Cephalus says, "Of course." But he's not really, is he? Or if he does ever inherit, which I'm not sure that he even gets, lives to inherit, if he does, he doesn't live to inherit for long.

Yeah, there's like a certain tragedy in the text if you understand the historical setting, which obviously Plato writing later, everyone would have known.

So again, we have to keep in mind that these are, you know, there's some kind of historical kernel here, and there's all kinds of debates about how much that exists.

But what we do know is that there's a thick artistic veneer on these dialogues, right? Plato picks these interlocutors very particularly, and so if we see this kind of character, someone who's executed by the 30 tyrants, uh, someone who, say, is a foreigner, like there's a reason that Plato then says, "No, this is going to be a good interlocutor for Socrates for this type of discussion." And then I think trying to parse that out is really important to the text, and also understanding then that Socrates then, uh, somewhat tailors his rhetoric always to his interlocutor, and we'll see that a few times tonight, uh, where I think that's really tailored to Polemarchus.

Well, I think there's also a point here to say that death kind of hangs over the entirety of Book One in an interesting way, because Cephalus, he, he brings this up at the beginning that, you know, as you get in, and of course we, the, the, uh, uh, as you get closer to the end, uh, Socrates asks him about this, but it is, you know, Cephalus talks about starting up for fear in the night from, uh, that maybe these stories of a, of an afterlife are true, and that I think that's important to carry forward through The Republic in general, that there is a seriousness about the state of, of, of a man's soul that goes, uh, beyond even just life and death, but death hovers over these initial conversations.