Aug 4, 2026 · 1 hr 1 min · 16 segments
In this episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu sit down with Adam Tarnow, former CPA, leadership development expert, and author of *The Fog of Work: A Simple…
Rob McKennaHost
Sabeth KapahuHost
Rob, you have been on the road a ton recently, mostly speaking about your book, Co-Leaders Wild Trust.
One of the things that I've been saying every time I get a chance to speak about it, and I can see people when their eyes light up or they take a picture of the screen, but I say this, that trust isn't built in systems of perfection.
And I think most people don't think about that, that trust is built in systems of repair.
And too often kind of the thing we see in the world is this idea that you either have trust or you don't.
And our research on trust would indicate that is exactly what's occurring is that we know that there are, even in the strongest organizations, that there are fragmentations of trust.
Even what we call stronghold organizations where the overall organization is there is It's averaging across the last couple of years, around 40% of individuals are in the jungle.
But we all know that our real story, because the wild stands for whole and intentional leader development.
And the whole story is that we have fragmentation within us that sometimes occurs within a day.
And it's just, and it is such a different way of thinking about what it means to build and sustain long-term trust, because it's going to fracture in certain places.
And one of the things I get a little pithy about is, first of all, as people say, like, if you lose trust, it takes a long time to rebuild it.
You know what I mean? We actually have shorter memories than we wanna give ourselves credit for.
So you can actually rebuild trust actually fairly quickly if you start to do things a little better.
And it's I think the other thing is that people are are open to repair when we invite them into their own learning.
Rob, you have been on the road a ton recently, mostly speaking about your book, Co-Leaders Wild Trust.
One of the things that I've been saying every time I get a chance to speak about it, and I can see people when their eyes light up or they take a picture of the screen, but I say this, that trust isn't built in systems of perfection.
And I think most people don't think about that, that trust is built in systems of repair.
And too often kind of the thing we see in the world is this idea that you either have trust or you don't.
And our research on trust would indicate that is exactly what's occurring is that we know that there are, even in the strongest organizations, that there are fragmentations of trust.
Even what we call stronghold organizations where the overall organization is there is It's averaging across the last couple of years, around 40% of individuals are in the jungle.
But we all know that our real story, because the wild stands for whole and intentional leader development.
And the whole story is that we have fragmentation within us that sometimes occurs within a day.
And it's just, and it is such a different way of thinking about what it means to build and sustain long-term trust, because it's going to fracture in certain places.
And one of the things I get a little pithy about is, first of all, as people say, like, if you lose trust, it takes a long time to rebuild it.
You know what I mean? We actually have shorter memories than we wanna give ourselves credit for.
So you can actually rebuild trust actually fairly quickly if you start to do things a little better.
And it's I think the other thing is that people are are open to repair when we invite them into their own learning.
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