We Didn't Plan This – The Podcast for People Who Ditched Their Five-Year Plan
Aug 15, 2026 · 38 min · 8 segments
A Singaporean doctor's winding, five-year fight to break into US medicine after graduating from a UK medical school. Three failed attempts, a pivot away from surgery, to a specialty almost no one back…
Ruan Qing ZhaoGuestIsaacHostFaithHostWow, there was many chapters in it.
No, that's a lovely story and I feel that one thing that really stands out was despite all the ups and downs, there was a really consistent or very determined part of you that said, I'm making it across the ocean, some way or another.
Right.
I'm wondering what was that driving factor and did it evolve across time? Was it the same thing that made you go at it the first time, the second time and the third time? And even I suppose the dream was probably even there when you were in your army uniform somewhere, right? So what was that dream and did it change?

as you progress through your medical career because medical careers are you know unfortunately very long uh your training is going to take up most of it right as you get older your priorities change so i'm pretty sure it's the same for both of you guys too that when you start off young right you have like all the energy in you and you probably want to do you know the toughest thing to get through the toughest challenges and rise to the very top of that peak of that mountain.

I was considering crazy specialties like neurosurgery, plastic and reconstructive surgery, general surgery.

And at that time, my understanding, I want to argue that it's probably still true that the rigor of that training in the US is not really, it's just not comparable to training anywhere else.

I mean, the hours are crazy, but I'm sure in Asian systems, it's not easy either.

But it's just the system of residency that almost has a very unique attraction.

Just by being called a residency program, it has this draw, at least for me at that time.


But as I did surgery, you know, as I kind of interacted with the people around me, then I kind of realized that you change in accordance to the kind of community you're in, right? I mean, surgeons are very driven and I think they're remarkable people being able to operate in that sort of high pressure environment.

At the same time, they're pretty quirky, right? So in order to excel in that kind of environment, you're going to have to become one of them, right? And then it becomes a personal choice of whether, as you progress along the way, whether that's something that you're comfortable with.

I think, deep within me, I don't see myself as having that sort of personality.
Wow, there was many chapters in it.
No, that's a lovely story and I feel that one thing that really stands out was despite all the ups and downs, there was a really consistent or very determined part of you that said, I'm making it across the ocean, some way or another.
Right.
I'm wondering what was that driving factor and did it evolve across time? Was it the same thing that made you go at it the first time, the second time and the third time? And even I suppose the dream was probably even there when you were in your army uniform somewhere, right? So what was that dream and did it change?

as you progress through your medical career because medical careers are you know unfortunately very long uh your training is going to take up most of it right as you get older your priorities change so i'm pretty sure it's the same for both of you guys too that when you start off young right you have like all the energy in you and you probably want to do you know the toughest thing to get through the toughest challenges and rise to the very top of that peak of that mountain.

I was considering crazy specialties like neurosurgery, plastic and reconstructive surgery, general surgery.

And at that time, my understanding, I want to argue that it's probably still true that the rigor of that training in the US is not really, it's just not comparable to training anywhere else.

I mean, the hours are crazy, but I'm sure in Asian systems, it's not easy either.

But it's just the system of residency that almost has a very unique attraction.

Just by being called a residency program, it has this draw, at least for me at that time.


But as I did surgery, you know, as I kind of interacted with the people around me, then I kind of realized that you change in accordance to the kind of community you're in, right? I mean, surgeons are very driven and I think they're remarkable people being able to operate in that sort of high pressure environment.

At the same time, they're pretty quirky, right? So in order to excel in that kind of environment, you're going to have to become one of them, right? And then it becomes a personal choice of whether, as you progress along the way, whether that's something that you're comfortable with.

I think, deep within me, I don't see myself as having that sort of personality.
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