‘Widow’s Bay’ Episode 9: Cloudy With a Chance Of …

Joanna RobinsonHost0:03

[drum music] Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feed.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:20

I'm Joanna Robinson.

I'm Rob Mahoney.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:22

It is the penultimate episode of Widow's Bay.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:25

A storm's a-brewing.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:27

How are you feeling?

I think we're past a-brewing.

It's here.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:29

It's here.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:29

The storm has arrived.

It's arrived.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:31

Um, we got several emails I will say, uh...

Joanna RobinsonHost0:34

And w- where can folks email us?

PrestigeTV@spotify.com.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:37

We got several emails over the last few weeks about a Stephen King miniseries called Storm of the Century.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:43

Or if you were one of the actors in 1999 in that miniseries, Stom of the Century.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:48

[laughs]

Okay.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost0:50

Anyway, I watched some of it.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:52

It is very relevant specifically to this episode, and so we'll talk about it a bit in context at the end of, uh, our discussion of this episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost0:59

But what did you think of this episode of television, Rob Mahoney?

I mean, there's a huge revelation that we've been-

Joanna RobinsonHost1:04

One singular-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost1:06

... huge revelation

... we have been dancing around for weeks.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:08

Spoilers.

Huge revelation.

We will be discussing it, all appropriate spoilers.

There's a lot of people lining up in somewhat orderly fashion, and that's kinda it.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:17

It's a table-setting episode.

It's a real table-setter.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:20

And-

Which is fine.

This is the way these things tend to go at this stage of a season

Joanna RobinsonHost1:23

... it's a table-setting episode, and if you cut out, like, Tom going back and forth from the lighthouse, and, you know, uh, Wick getting Bashir to the, the shelter and stuff like that, uh, it's a sh- it's a shorter episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:37

It could've been an even shorter episode.

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:39

That being said, for me-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost1:42

... uh, the great Dale Dickey is playing Rosemary.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:45

Giving her this in...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:47

I re-watched that scene so many times, 'cause I just think it's so funny.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:53

So, like, for me, worth...

Joanna RobinsonHost1:56

A- and this is, this is my feeling about Widow's Bay in general, like, I'm greedy for more.

Joanna RobinsonHost1:59

And, like, I want all of these episodes to be longer, and, like-

It's true

Joanna RobinsonHost2:03

... uh, they always leave me wanting more, which is, like, on the one hand, good.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:07

Um, but I just thought the Rosemary stuff was so phenomenal in this episode that, like, while I completely agree with you, it's a table-setter and not a ton happens, we're setting up for a great place for the finale.

Of course.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:18

But yeah, in isolation, I can see how you're like, "Okay, we're, we're, we're moving pieces around."

It just felt like the least eventful, but you're right.

From a character standpoint, this is Rosemary's, like, Linsanity moment, if you'll, if you'll spare the s- [laughs] the sports comparison.

But, like, giving her her, like, clear out, let's just let Rosemary hold the room-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:36

Yeah

... make her presentation-

Joanna RobinsonHost2:38

And she does

... with overlaying, like, uh, projector slides.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:42

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:43

Transparency is what it's called.

Tr- sorry, the transparencies.

It's been a minute.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost2:45

I know, you're, you're too young.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:47

[laughs]

No, I was there.

It's just been a minute.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:49

Just some quick, uh, programming, the, for us, for our podcast feed, I should say.

Joanna RobinsonHost2:53

Um, we got a couple emails or, or comments from people saying, "Hey, will you be covering The Vampire Lestat?" On this feed, no.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:00

On House of R, in a quite serious fashion, yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:04

[laughs] So if you wanna hear week-to-week coverage of The Vampire Lestat, including Mallory Baństwa's vampire fangs-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost3:10

... there's, like, a lot involved.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:12

That's over on the House of R feed.

Who bought whatever duster or coat-

Joanna RobinsonHost3:15

Clues

... you're wearing?

Joanna RobinsonHost3:16

Let's see.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:16

It's right over there.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:17

[laughs]

Okay, I'm, I'm glad it's here in the room with us.

It is very special.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:20

Thank you.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:20

It's a Penny Lane moment-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost3:22

... uh, if I ever had one.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:23

Um, so that's happening.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:25

Cape Fear, however-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost3:27

... that's here, baby.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:28

Cape Fear.

That's where we live.

That's where we sweat.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:31

We had some questions after episode two whether or not we would cover it week to week.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:35

We asked listeners if they wanted us to.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:36

We got a lot of emails of people saying-

Quite a lot

Joanna RobinsonHost3:38

... "Yes, please." And then also Rob and I have since watched episode three, and we both agreed we are in for week after week.

I'm in there like a dead skunk in a pool.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:47

Are we gonna regret it come week eight? Maybe.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost3:51

But we're calling this Trash Trapeze Theater, as in it's summers here, Apple has presented us, a la Presumed Innocent, another Prestige-y, skeezy, fun fu- fun time-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost4:02

... at the television, uh, show.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:04

So that's what we'll be watching.

Yeah, we're here covering Widow's Bay because we have come to really love-

Joanna RobinsonHost4:08

Yeah

... all of the charms of this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:09

Absolutely.

We're going to be covering Cape Fear because we don't know what to make of it.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:13

[laughs]

But we're down to sleaze it up a little bit.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:14

We're having a fun time.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:15

We had asked, uh, some questions about the writer of last week's episode, Emma Ketcham.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:21

We heard from Emma herself.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:22

She emailed the pod.

Incredible.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:24

PrestigeTV@spotify.com. Um-

How do you feel about the power that you wield [laughs] to will an email from Emma Ketcham into the world?

Joanna RobinsonHost4:31

Well, I really love...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:32

E- Emma emailed us, and then a couple other people emailed us with information about Emma.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:36

Um, but it's all the same, which is just basically that Emma was Katie Dippold's writer- writer's assistant.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:42

Um, and then Katie sort of gave her this opportunity.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:44

So this is her f- this is her first writer's credit.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:47

And I just wanna...

Joanna RobinsonHost4:47

The reason-

Episode eight, we should say

Joanna RobinsonHost4:48

... episode eight.

Joanna RobinsonHost4:49

And, and the reason I wanna sort of single that out is that it's rare for a writer's assistant in the first season of a television show to get a written-by credit on an episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:01

So what to me that speaks to is Katie Dippold's, like, quite democratic approach to her writer's room, and especially coming off something like, um, Euphoria-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost5:12

... where, which doesn't even have a writer's room.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:14

Like, hearing that, it just, it just makes me think very highly of this show and of this-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost5:19

... because that's how you get more and better TV writers, is that you, like, the assistants in the room learn, and they get to grow, and they get to put their credit on a, on an episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:26

So I just think it's fantastic.

Especially for a show like Widow's Bay where if you step off the path tonally-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:31

Yeah

... ever so slightly-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:32

Yeah

...

I think it would be really, really glaring.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And yet episode eight felt locked in, in step with everything that they've been doing all season long.

A, an incredible testament, I think, to Emma's work, but also to the greater, I'm sure, the writer's room and the construction-

Joanna RobinsonHost5:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... and the, the streamlined nature of the way that this show is made.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:48

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:48

It's an entire, uh, you know-

There's a cohesion to it

Joanna RobinsonHost5:51

... it's a, it's a cohesion, but it's a collaborative effort.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost5:53

Um, it will be interesting if in future, if Widow's Bay runs for a million years, which we hope it does, if in future you'll be able to identify, like, cer- oh, that's a Neil Casey episode-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost6:03

... or that's a, like, whatever episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:05

Um, but thus far we're getting, like, a really cohesive...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:08

But, you know, like-

It has a stun gun and/or a taser.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:11

[laughs]

That's an Emma Ketcham episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:12

That's an Emma Ketcham.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:13

That's an Emma Ketcham hallmark.

That, that's her trademark.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:15

But, you know, when you watch, um, like, certain shows like Lost or, um-X Files-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost6:21

... you know, and like Darren Morgan would come on and do these like extremely weird episodes.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:24

You're just sort of like-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost6:25

... excited about that.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:26

So we love writers on this show.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:28

Um, all right.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:29

Hannah reached out to give us a, a Babadooking that I wanted to share.

Please.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:35

And if you're coming in late to the season, just to establish that Katie Dippold, of course, showrunner of Widow's Bay, author of this incredible, uh, Babadook tweet-

The one good thing to come out of Twitter

Joanna RobinsonHost6:46

... um, the one ...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:47

Well, I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:48

Have you seen what Hunter Biders- Biden's been doing on Twitter lately? [laughs]

[laughs] I'm, I'm trying to check out on that.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:52

No, but like genuinely, it's great.

I think I'm good.

Thanks.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:54

I think I should share-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost6:55

...

Joanna RobinsonHost6:55

some, some tweets.

Joanna RobinsonHost6:57

[laughs] The concept of Babadooking, we have determined, is like showing up to something, misreading the tone of the event that you're arriving to-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost7:04

... and really kind of making, unwittingly making a spectacle of yourself.

Most often misunderstanding the dress or the code or the attire or, yeah, I think just the general vibe is appropriate, too.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:15

Hannah wrote in to say, "In college," and she attached a photo.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:17

It's always great when they attach a photo to the Babadooking emails.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:20

Hannah wrote in to say, "I went- in college I went to a Halloween party full of intimidating, unwelcoming Khaleesis and sexy whatevers, and boy, did I regret dressing as Angela Merkel."

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost7:34

[laughs] "Nobody knew who I was.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:35

I failed miserably at flip cup, had a bit of a tantrum, got way too drunk, and complained shrilly about being a woman in a position of political leadership.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:43

I've had about a million Babadook moments since, but I did learn from that Halloween.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:46

The next year I went as sexy Boris Johnson and terrified all my friends." So, um-

I mean, there is a, a near distance-

Joanna RobinsonHost7:53

[laughs]

... from Angela Merkel to sexy Boris Johnson somehow.

Like, that's ...

I can see how one costume could become the other.

Joanna RobinsonHost7:58

Yeah, absolutely.

Uh, I'm pulling it up now.

This is really something.

This is a-

Joanna RobinsonHost8:02

It's a great photo

...

this is quite a good Angela Merkel costume.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:04

I agree.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:05

I agree.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:05

The wig work is fantastic.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:07

All right.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:07

Mimi wrote in about a detail in episode eight that we missed, uh, noting that when Tom and Patricia and Wick are eating breakfast and they're like, "We did it-"

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost8:15

... "It's, it's done," that there was a woman who was, had like one of Tom's brochures that he got printed up where he, I think the one that he like tries to rip up-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost8:23

...

Joanna RobinsonHost8:23

in this very episode.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:25

So at the beginning of the episode she's like holding this brochure, and then at the end of the episode when Patricia goes to the hospital to like visit Bashir, she's there with like a neck brace and, uh, like, uh, her arm in a sling.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:36

So it's just sort of like from we did it to we're still fucked-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost8:39

... as represented by this one like background actor.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:42

I thought it's a really fun detail Mimi pointed out to us.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:45

Um, Lauren, Lauren pointed out last week or maybe like a couple weeks ago about Patricia's, uh, career as a painter, as an artiste.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost8:54

Um, and I don't know if that's gonna come into play, but do you feel like it came into play in this moment when she turned into the Widow's Bay subreddit and noticed-

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost9:01

...

Joanna RobinsonHost9:01

the missing finger on the portrait inside of this episode?

The opportunistically ripped-

Joanna RobinsonHost9:07

Yeah

...

so only the finger is exposed on the rear side of the canvas.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:10

I was rewatching Matthew Rhys having to like slam it down on the table to get it to like the exact right place where it could s- conceivably rip there.

Tremendous.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:17

I think it rips on like a speaker tower or something like that.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:20

Anyway, it was, it was great.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:22

Really good.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:22

As we mentioned, Rosemary does the full genealogy to, to get to the reveal-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost9:27

... of Ruth, not Evan Loftus-

Mm-mm

Joanna RobinsonHost9:31

... as the, the last remaining Warren.

Nor Patricia, nor Wick.

Joanna RobinsonHost9:34

And I should say this was sort of your initial instinct, where you were like, "It should be someone who has like been here in the background the whole time so we know them-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost9:43

...

Joanna RobinsonHost9:43

but, but sort of waiting to step into the limelight." So how do you feel about Ruth as a, as a choice for that?

I like the choice of Ruth or someone who's not Evan, and we talked about this a little bit, but I think making it so that if it is Tom who has to make this sort of decision, he has to weigh the life of this person, and he's kind of increasingly nudged toward human sacrifice as he realizes that oh, it's just one person.

Oh, it's an elderly person.

Who cares if it's Ruth? Uh, I could be talked into this in this particular moment.

But making him choose between someone's life and his son's future, right? The idea that Evan can't leave the island-

Joanna RobinsonHost10:17

Mm-hmm

... unless this other person dies.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:19

He'll never see the Red Sox play in person.

Yeah.

[laughs] That, I don't know if that's a blessing or a curse.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:23

[laughs]

We'll have to do some polling here, uh, here at the office.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:25

Wow.

I think that to me is more interesting.

Consolidating everything into Evan feels like a little bit of a narrative traffic jam.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:34

What I do think is interesting is that this episode sets up Tom as a father concerned about his child's future, and then also Bashir-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost10:41

... as like a father concerned about his wife and his potential, uh, baby's future.

Joanna RobinsonHost10:45

And so there, you still do get this sort of like parents concerned about their children aspect-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost10:51

... which when we get to the Stephen King Storm of the Century sort of comp is, is very much in, in the water there.

Well, with the Bashir part too, this episode left me wondering is the decision of what to do with Ruth going to be a Tom decision at all? We see him and Wick and Patricia wrestling with that idea-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:06

Mm

...

in this episode.

But Bashir and Shell and their conversations in this plot line, they make me feel like there's another shoe to drop.

And it feels like-

Joanna RobinsonHost11:15

Mm

... what if it is not Tom who makes that call? What if it is sort of like the broader community has to decide? This like angry mob that's been burbling all throughout the season, they have to decide who they are and what they're willing to give up.

'Cause everyone, Bashir included, like they have things at stake in this too.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:30

So I was gonna save all of the Storm of the Century stuff for the end, but I should say that like the big climactic sort of event of Storm of the Century, this four-hour miniseries that aired on ABC over three nights in 1999, is a town meeting.

Mm.

Joanna RobinsonHost11:43

And the whole town has to decide what to do in terms of sacrificing someone to end a storm-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost11:50

... and, uh, defeat, uh, when a classic Stephen King is it the devil kind of person.

I don't know if this is gonna be a town meeting or not.

It could be angrier than that.

Maybe it's everybody stuck in the shelter.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:02

Do you think it's gonna be a town mobbing more than a town meeting?

It, it could.

I don't know if like, uh, wh- whose rules of law is it? Like I don't know if all of the, uh-...

congressional approvals are gonna be required to get this thing off the ground so much as people are gonna make a rash emotional decision about-

Joanna RobinsonHost12:15

Mm

... whether they, how they want to attempt to survive whatever this storm is.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:19

Our listener Jana wrote in to say, uh, to give us a broad theory.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:23

They said that Katie Dippold has said the series is, the season is about denial.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:27

The first scene of the series is Shep talking about his decision to end his relationship even though his partner has very clearly already ended it.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:32

She's literally packed his bags.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:34

But Shep is still narrating events as if he is the one making the choice.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:37

He is in denial about something painfully obvious.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:39

I wonder if the same is true for Loftus.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:41

The assumption is that Loftus is in denial about the curse, but that doesn't hold up.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:44

He resists the island lore for a while, but after his encounter with the sea hag, he relents.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:49

By the middle of the season, he enforces curfew, moves with the logic of the curse.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:53

I think his denial is about something else.

Joanna RobinsonHost12:55

There have been enough hallucinations, visions, and reality-bending moments throughout the season that I would be surprised if our understanding of something basic about reality on this weird island, complete with insane asylum, remains intact.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:06

My guess is that Loftus is denying something more than the curse itself, and that the season ends with the collapse of whatever he's been clinging to.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:12

Well, I don't know, that's interesting.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:13

But I, but I, but, like, establishing denial as a-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost13:17

... as a big-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost13:19

... sort of theme of the season I think is interesting.

I think it is interesting.

I wonder, though, with Loftus specifically how much he was ever fully in denial versus that's what he was projecting to the world because-

Joanna RobinsonHost13:31

I think he was in denial

...

I think the backstory with his wife suggests that he's at least, like, tangentially aware and maybe even personally familiar with some of these, like, supernatural elements that he then as mayor pretends to not believe in.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:44

Possibly, but also, like, the way he describes it to Evan is, like, complications, pre-eclampsia.

It's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:50

You know what I mean? Like, so perhaps he was like, "Man of science, man of faith.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:53

There's a man of science explanation for this."

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost13:55

And, like, once a sea hag cornered him in a bathtub, he's like, "Uh-oh, I'm a man of faith now."

I think it's when she splashed on him.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:02

I think it's when he saw, uh, our, our shaman Todd-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost14:06

... get sucked up into a, a cyclone.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:09

[laughs]

A big, mean, dark-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:11

Is that a cyclone? Tornado?

I don't...

Yeah, what's the difference between a cyclone and a tornado?

Joanna RobinsonHost14:14

Land, touching land.

Is it really?

Joanna RobinsonHost14:16

I think so.

Wait, would-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:18

Is this a stun gun versus... [laughs]

I'm just realizing-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:21

Taser moment?

...

I don't know what a cyclone is.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:22

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:23

Cyclone versus tornado.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:26

I feel like, uh...

Joanna RobinsonHost14:30

Oh, cyclone has been used to describe anything that rotated counterclockwise, so often tornado and a cyclone are interchangeable.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:36

I thought one had to do with, like, touching land.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:38

Maybe not.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:39

It's been a while since I watched Twister.

You're saying the cyclone needs to touch grass.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:42

[laughs] Um, press CCTV on spotify.com if you paid closer attention to either Twister or Twisters-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost14:48

... and can let us know.

If you're a meteorologist.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:49

Yeah.

If you're in it for the s-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:51

If you're Helen Hunt.

If you're in it for the science, not the money-

Joanna RobinsonHost14:53

Yeah

... then please get at us.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:54

Let us know.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:55

Um, Eric wrote in.

Joanna RobinsonHost14:57

This is the email I was reading where I was like, "Huh," before we started recording.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:00

You're like, "Okay, Joanna." Um, something I really enjoyed of the whole genealogy journey that Rosemary goes on this episode is that a- as it begins, um, one of my favorite things about the movie Hot Fuzz, which is a, a movie we've already referenced a couple times-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost15:16

...

Joanna RobinsonHost15:16

in establishing this, um-

The greater good.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:18

All of that

One of Us, all of it

Joanna RobinsonHost15:20

... uh, is how all the town- townspeople have these, like, Anglo-Saxon names.

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:25

So their last names are, like, what they do, you know? So there's, like, Gardener and Tiller and, like, um, and so Wheeler, et cetera, et cetera, Cartwright, Wainwright, blah, blah.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:36

Um, Warren-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost15:39

... which is sort of guardian, and then, like, Fisher.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:42

The, the, like, it's a, a whaler who rescues Francis out of the sea.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:46

His last name is Fisher, so, like, Francis Fisher.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:49

Um, great actress, but also the name of a character on the show.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:52

Um, so, like, you have those Anglo-Saxon names sort of at the beginning, and then it changes as, as, as you go down the history.

Joanna RobinsonHost15:59

But, um, Eric wrote in to talk about the, the name Warren.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:03

Uh, so, like, protector, nurturer, stewardship of the land.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:07

Like, that's a-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost16:08

... that's a thing that Warren can mean.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:09

But also like a rabbit's warren, it can be a complicated series of, uh-

Sure

Joanna RobinsonHost16:14

... tunnels or, or a maze.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:15

So we were already talking about the, like, tunnel system underneath Richard Warren's house, so this, like, double meaning of, like, Warren as island protector, but also warren as in, like, the rabbit's warren-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost16:24

... uh, u- under the system of tunnels underneath this island.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:28

I thought that was fun.

Do you think it's possible that the storm shelter connects to those tunnels?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:32

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:33

Yeah, I do.

Do you think it's inevitable that it connects to those tunnels?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:35

Yeah.

Are we stumbling into the sacrifice room?

Joanna RobinsonHost16:38

That...

Joanna RobinsonHost16:38

Okay, when Dale turns on the lights, Emmy...

Joanna RobinsonHost16:42

Okay, Emmy winner Geoff Hiller-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost16:44

...

Joanna RobinsonHost16:44

I think has not been used to his full extent this season.

Has not.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:46

Dale Dickey got her time to shine in this.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:48

Seemingly Ruth will have plenty to do in the finale, I assume.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:52

Uh, I don't know when we're getting our, uh, our episode for him.

Joanna RobinsonHost16:58

Maybe it's a season two situation.

Could be.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:00

But-

But of the core city hall cast-

Joanna RobinsonHost17:02

Yeah

...

I think you're right that he is the one member who has not really had a spotlight moment yet.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:06

Um-

Other than DJing.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:08

Right, and, and the mushroom trip sort of, like, mask moment.

That is true.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:13

Um-

That w- that was horrifying

Joanna RobinsonHost17:14

...

Joanna RobinsonHost17:14

but, like, his face...

Joanna RobinsonHost17:16

So I, I, I want more for him to do, but his face, like, when he turns on the lights-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost17:20

...

Joanna RobinsonHost17:20

I, same.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:21

A hard same.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:22

Would I go down into that shelter? I'm not sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:25

[laughs]

Where are you going?

Joanna RobinsonHost17:27

Some- anywhere else.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:28

That looks, that place looks-

It's a storm

Joanna RobinsonHost17:30

...

Joanna RobinsonHost17:30

so haunted.

It's the storm of the century, of centuries.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:33

It looks so haunted down there.

Better, better haunted than dead.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:37

[laughs] I don't know.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:39

I, I might use my, like, sort of California earthquake mentality to be like, "Can I just stand in a doorframe?"

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost17:43

"Will that protect me?" [laughs]

Somehow in this case I don't think it's gonna work.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:46

Okay, fine.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:47

Also, I wanted to note that, uh, in this episode, one thing that I loved is that Tom and Patricia have this, like, very non-verbal-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost17:55

... uh, understanding of each other.

Joanna RobinsonHost17:57

I wanna maybe go back and, and track it all season, but there's a number of times where Rob, uh, where, where Tom just sort of, like, nods at her.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:04

And then she just, like, does ex- you know, like, turn on the fan, close the door, do whatever, and she gets it.

The old man who shows up to, to-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:10

Yeah, the old-timer

... uh, I mean, really to be, like, the harbinger of the storm to come.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:15

Yeah, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:15

Yeah.

Uh, but really just the exposition dropIt, that scene is so funny

Joanna RobinsonHost18:19

Closing the door on him?

The, the, the very slow, calm, quiet closing of the door-

Joanna RobinsonHost18:23

Yeah

... as he just continues to pace outside.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:25

I love that he's, like, simply credited as Old Timer-

Oh, is he?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:28

...

Joanna RobinsonHost18:28

in, in the closing credits.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:29

That's his name.

I, I was calling him in my notes Old Basil Exposition.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:32

[laughs]

How do you feel about that?

Joanna RobinsonHost18:34

Um, you're just bringing Michael York back into the mix after Euphoria.

We, we simply must.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:38

I love that.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:38

I love that for you.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:39

Um, okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:41

I wanted to read this email that we got from Nicole about Patricia, which I really loved.

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:46

Uh, specifically about Patricia in episode eight.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:49

She wrote, "I thought this episode," episode eight, "like all great horror, had a cutting social commentary, this time with Patricia.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:54

Her performance of the final girl running from the Boogeyman at first is actually very quiet, almost performative.

Joanna RobinsonHost18:59

It screams the actions of a woman who is so insecure, she doesn't want any reparation or negative repercussions for others because she got a disgustingly disparate dinner from what she ordered.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:08

It's the meekest, funniest cries for help I've ever seen.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:11

Patricia is screamingly, painfully relatable.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:14

Watching her run from her, from the Boogeyman in a way that didn't disturb others was the funniest thing I'd seen in months, until I got to her holding the shotgun against the Boogeyman's head in four different locations.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:23

That killed me." So, like, for Patricia to go from, like, "Help, help," a bit-

Yeah, yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:27

... to, like, stun-gunning-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost19:30

... tasing.

Even just barging into the girls' night to begin with.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:32

Tasing Chris.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:34

To the shotgun, uh, situation is this, like, evolution for Patricia.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:38

And for Patricia, you know, what Nicole singles out another moment in that episode when, which I didn't really clock, when Patricia's talking to Bashir about Chelle-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost19:49

... being pregnant and she says, like, "How old is she?"

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:54

Um, I thought she was just sort of asking as, like, it didn't even occur to me that Chelle could be...

Joanna RobinsonHost19:58

And she kind of is.

Joanna RobinsonHost19:59

But also, inside of this episode, when they're debating about what to do with Ruth-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost20:04

... and they're like, "She's not married, she doesn't have kids," and Patricia's like, "Well, glad that, you know, I'm not in a morgue to center or you would've already slit my throat," this idea of, like, does a woman have less value if she's not married, if she doesn't have kids-

Yes

Joanna RobinsonHost20:15

... you know, uh, up against Tom Loftus, who's like, "You don't understand.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:19

I have a child to protect."

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:20

Or Bashir theoretically, "I have a, a, a child coming that I wanna protect," you know? And so, like, the value of the unmarried un- you know, doesn't have a child woman inside of this island.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:31

And so does Patricia have this moment inside of episode eight where she finds out that Chelle is pregnant and she's like, "I, like, is this still possible for me?"

Mm-hmm.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:40

"I thought maybe I was, like, past my sell-by date to a certain degree." Like, which is a theme that has been running up, you know, for a lot of the women inside of this season, so.

For sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost20:48

Yeah.

I mean, it's clearly part of the cortex of the show-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:50

Yeah

... for many of the characters.

And I also love that Patricia has all that going on, where she is constantly being confronted with her age, with the fact that she is single-

Joanna RobinsonHost20:59

Yeah

... with her role in this community and the-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:00

Yeah

... how o- like, ostracized she feels within it from the people she went to school with, but she's also the moral center of this episode.

Like, she's the one saying, "Hold the fuck on.

Are we talking [laughs] about shooting Ruth in the back of the head? This is ridiculous." Whereas people who do have kids or people who just feel like they have different motivations are very willing to at least consider this, like, really barbaric thing.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:21

Do you s- do you view that scene with, like, Tom...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:24

And, and the episode ends with we don't know what Tom's gonna...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:27

I mean-

We can suspect.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:29

We suspect what Tom is off to do, but he has not answered-

No

Joanna RobinsonHost21:33

... what he's going to do.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:35

So if Tom is the undecided-

Right

Joanna RobinsonHost21:37

... and you have Wick being like, "You gotta."

I can make it peaceful.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:41

Right.

Joanna RobinsonHost21:41

And Patricia saying, "You simply can't," that's the sort of, like, angel...

Joanna RobinsonHost21:45

Are these, like, the angel/devil ideas that are gonna be in his head as he navigates whatever trolley problem moral decision that he has to make in the finale?

I'm glad you brought up the trolley problem, 'cause I feel like if you are on the side of Ruth needs to die to liberate the island-

Joanna RobinsonHost21:58

Mm-hmm

... couldn't you just not go help her and hope that-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:03

Oh, let the storm do its work?

Let the storm kinda do its thing?

Joanna RobinsonHost22:06

Hmm, what a...

Joanna RobinsonHost22:07

We know where Rob stands.

Look, no-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:09

Rob would kill Ruth

... hard disagree.

I w- I would give my life for Ruth, personally.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:13

Oh, okay.

But I'm saying if you are on that side of things, there is a very dangerous component right here in the community that they're, they are even laying out, "We need to go save Ruth from this.

We need to bring her-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:23

Right

... to the shelter."

Joanna RobinsonHost22:24

Well, it was a nice s- a nice way to establish Ruth is, uh, early in the episode, Ruth is not here.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:28

So whatever's going on with Ruth is going to be a secondary location that, that Tom and then, you know, the mob that you're predicting will have to go to.

Maybe.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:37

Yeah.

Did you find it odd at all, uh, I think especially in an episode that was this short and maybe even this thin from a certain point of view, that we don't see Ruth whatsoever? We don't get any flash to, like, her at her house or anything.

Like-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:50

What's she doing, do you think?

I, I mean-

Joanna RobinsonHost22:52

Napping?

Trying to work some kind of technology and failing miserably.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:56

[laughs]

Like, it's not going well, I'm sure.

Joanna RobinsonHost22:58

Yeah.

But we're talking a lot about Ruth, and I feel like in a different kind of show, there would be, like, a cut to Ruth at her house-

Joanna RobinsonHost23:06

Mm

... doing whatever she's doing and cut back.

Clearly the show is withholding that, and I wonder, like, what is, what is the dynamic that Tom is gonna be walking into when he does get to her house? Presumably that's where he's going.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:16

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:17

So you're like, is, is Ruth filming her OnlyFans content?

I...

You know what?

Joanna RobinsonHost23:22

Maybe.

Live your life.

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost23:26

Live your life.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:26

[laughs] If we've learned anything from Euphoria-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost23:28

... live your life.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:29

Um, couple things before we circle back to this Rosemary moment, which is just so incredible.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:36

Um, the pre-Rosemary presentation is Wick coming into her office.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:41

We get this, like, really interesting whale blubber comment from Wick where he talks about this was the dominant industry of the island-

Mm-hmm

Joanna RobinsonHost23:49

... up until his, his father's time.

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:51

So into the 20th century.

Joanna RobinsonHost23:53

Um, and the captains, like, ruled the island, and we've s- had some indications of that, of like, you know, captains doing certain things, um, to have their way.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:04

Um, does that, is that setting up anything for this season? Is it setting up something for a future season? What do you think?

I, I was really thrown by this.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:12

Oh, yeah.

It was an, it was an odd bit of, like, focus.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:15

Yeah.

Like, we're gonna kind of k- bringing it up a couple different times in the episode, kinda framing things in this way.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:20

Yeah.

I mean, maybe there's a short-term, like-I, what's, what's the, uh, the expiration date on whale blubber? Like, if there's some whale blubber down in the tunnels to, to work some torches, is that a thing that would still be functional after all these years?

Joanna RobinsonHost24:33

If you're a whaler.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:35

Press CCV at-

Are you not a whaler?

Joanna RobinsonHost24:36

Press CCV@spotify.com to let us know how you, how one preserves...

Joanna RobinsonHost24:40

Like, can you just seal it in a jar like jam?

I would s-

Joanna RobinsonHost24:42

Is that what you're saying?

I would presume it's kind of already preserved.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:45

Blubber?

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:46

No, all, all fats go rancid.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:48

You know this as a chef.

Well, well, sure.

But they have a, a much longer shelf life than expected.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:52

A stable shelf life.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:53

Yeah, okay.

Way.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:53

Okay.

You can keep lard out on your counter for a long time.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:56

[laughs] Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost24:58

Um, and then did you, uh, freeze-frame Mahoney on Rosemary's desk drawer?

Uh, I did.

I was most intrigued by the c-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:06

The Diet Coke

...

the three Diet Coke cans.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:08

Yeah, I knew you would be.

I couldn't tell whether they were empties or fulls.

I tried, like, going with a-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:11

No, they were fulls.

You think they were fulls based on how they rocked?

Joanna RobinsonHost25:14

Based on the roll.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:14

Yeah.

This is what I was looking at.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:15

Yeah.

I was like, "They feel full to me."

Joanna RobinsonHost25:17

Those were fulls.

Based on someone who has an unfortunately very intimate understanding-

Joanna RobinsonHost25:20

Yeah

... of the weight and density of a Diet Coke can.

Uh, so we're glad to welcome Rosemary to the team.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:25

I, when she pulled open the drawer, I was like, "Rob will probably freeze-frame this, but I should do it just to, just in case he doesn't." And then when I saw that the Diet Cokes were there, I was like, "Rob certainly, uh, was all over this." Okay.

My sister.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:34

[laughs] She, you and Rosemary.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:37

Um, she mentioned that it's a castle doctrine-

Yeah

Joanna RobinsonHost25:41

... uh, town.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:43

Do you know the difference between the castle doctrine and stand your ground?

They feel of a feather to me.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:47

One needs to touch ground.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:48

No. [laughs]

[laughs]

Joanna RobinsonHost25:51

Castle doctrine only applies to your home, your vehicle, or sometimes your workplace.

Okay.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:55

And then stand your ground is anywhere.

Joanna RobinsonHost25:58

[laughs]

Stand your ground is anywhere?

Joanna RobinsonHost26:00

Yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:00

Any public place where you have a legal right to be.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:03

So you can't break into someone's home and claim stand your ground, but you can in the Walmart, I guess.

I really underestimated how medieval Florida is.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:09

[laughs] Stop.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:11

You would think castle doctrine would be the more medieval-

You would think

Joanna RobinsonHost26:15

... uh, than stand your ground, but stand your ground is, uh-

Holy shit

Joanna RobinsonHost26:17

... yeah, tough.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:18

Really fucking tough.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:19

Um, all right.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:20

Let's get to Rosemary's, uh, presentation.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:23

Uh, she's, she's smoking.

Yep.

Gotta take a break.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:27

She's not...

Joanna RobinsonHost26:27

She's doing, she's smoking and pres- presenting.

Well, but she's got to break to light up.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:30

Oh, yeah.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:31

That's true.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:31

[laughs]

Hold, hold for dramatic effect while I light my cigarette.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:34

This is just so good.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:36

Like, all of her mutter to side.

Yes.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:39

I just wanna applaud Dale Dickey for this.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:40

I just think she's absolutely incredible.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:43

The first time I watched it, I was, like, a little impatient-

Mm

Joanna RobinsonHost26:45

... 'cause I, like, wanted, I was eager to know the answer.

Joanna RobinsonHost26:47

Um, and I was like, "What are we doing? Come on," as are Tom and Wake and Patricia.