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The Grace Awakening: Reckoning with Abuse in the Church

The Grace Awakening: Reckoning with Abuse in the Church

Ep 19. When "I'm Sorry" Isn't Enough: What Makes a Meaningful Apology?

Sep 24, 2026 · 1 hr 4 min · 11 segments

**Guest:** Wade Mullen. In this episode, we have an all NEW interview with author and GRACE Editor in Chief of Institutional Response, Wade Mullen. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Wade…

**Guest:** Wade Mullen. In this episode, we have an all NEW interview with author and GRACE Editor in Chief of Institutional Response, Wade Mullen. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Wade about what makes an apology meaningful, why self-protection is so tempting, and how Wade's SCORE framework can serve as a guide for authentic apologies. Plus, why click-in flooring is so infuriating and an examination of some real-life apologies. **Resources Mentioned:** - "Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse—and Freeing Yourself from Its Power" by Wade Mullen - "Truth and Repair: How Trauma Survivors Envision Justice" by Judith Herman - Wade Mullen's Blog: wademullen.substack.com *Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.*

**Guest:** Wade Mullen. In this episode, we have an all NEW interview with author and GRACE Editor in Chief of Institutional Response, Wade Mullen. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Wade…

Show signals: Audience≈8k followers

Spotify YouTube Amazon Music Website

Speakers: Wade MullenGuestRobert PetersHostHannah FordiceHostZaneHost

Top entities: Wade Mullen×38 God×16 Alice Walker×2 Christianity×12 Enneagram of Personality×7

Hobbies, Perfectionism, and Marriage0:56 – 4:35

Robert PetersHost

0:56

Before we get to a very in-depth conversation with Wade, maybe a less in-depth conversation, Hannah, are there things that you find particularly difficult to do? They feel maybe contrary to your nature or you're just, yeah, there's just some sort of barrier and it's just not your thing.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:16

Yeah, this is going to sound weird.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:19

Any hobby I'm not instantly good at.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:23

My husband is a collector of hobbies.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:26

He loves to try new things, even if he's terrible at them.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:30

He does not care.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:31

There is no discomfort there for him.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:33

It's just the joy of a new thing.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:36

I am a creature of habit.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:38

I am a creature of, I don't know, liking to succeed.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:42

And I am apparently driven by that.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:44

And so I don't love trying new things.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:48

And when I do try new things, if I don't instantly enjoy it or instantly I'm good at it, I do not like that thing.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:53

And I do not keep doing it.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:55

So I have a very, very few hobbies because of that.

Robert PetersHost

2:00

Have we publicly outed your Enneagram number yet?

Hannah FordiceHost

2:03

I think we've talked about it.

Hannah FordiceHost

2:04

It

Robert PetersHost

2:04

feels like something we've talked about.

Robert PetersHost

2:06

Very Enneagram one, not to reduce all Enneagram ones out there, but.

Hannah FordiceHost

2:10

We're perfectionists.

Hannah FordiceHost

2:11

We're perfectionists.

Robert PetersHost

2:13

You are phenomenal.

Robert PetersHost

2:14

This is true of, I think, all Enneagram ones.

Robert PetersHost

2:16

You are phenomenal at the things you choose to do.

Wade MullenPersonWriter
97%38 mentions
GodEntitySupreme being
91%16 mentions
Alice WalkerPersonAmerican novelist and short story writer
84%2 mentions
ChristianityEntityReligion
78%12 mentions
Enneagram of PersonalityEntity
72%7 mentions
JesusPersonReligious leader
66%3 mentions
The Color PurpleBookNovel by Alice Walker
59%2 mentions
Bill HybelsPersonAmerican author
53%4 mentions
TetrisVideo GameVideo game
47%3 mentions
Ravi ZachariasPersonIndian-Canadian author
41%1 mention
Judith Lewis HermanPersonAmerican psychiatrist and Researcher
34%2 mentions
SubstackSoftware ApplicationWebsite
28%4 mentions
ZacchaeusPerson
22%1 mention
Diane LangbergPersonPsychologist
16%1 mention
BibleBookReligious text
9%1 mention
Religious textEntity
3%1 mention

Society
Institutional ResponsesReligion > Christianity > Apologies
HealingReligion > Christianity > Apologies > Institutional Responses
SincerityPsychology > Emotions > Apologies
Healing ProcessPsychology > Emotions > Apologies > Sincerity
Institutional BehaviorEthics > Accountability > Apologies
LeadershipEthics > Accountability > Apologies > Institutional Behavior
Public PerceptionSociety > Cultural Norms > Apologies
Institutional TrustSociety > Cultural Norms > Apologies > Public Perception
Conflict ResolutionFamily > Relationships > Apologies
Emotional HealingFamily > Relationships > Apologies > Conflict Resolution
AccountabilityEthics
ApologiesPsychology > Emotions
Cultural NormsSociety
ApologiesEthics > Accountability
ApologiesReligion > Christianity
EmotionsPsychology
ApologiesSociety > Cultural Norms
ApologiesFamily > Relationships
Religion
ChristianityReligion
Psychology
Family
RelationshipsFamily
Ethics

Hobbies, Perfectionism, and Marriage0:56 – 4:35

Robert PetersHost

0:56

Before we get to a very in-depth conversation with Wade, maybe a less in-depth conversation, Hannah, are there things that you find particularly difficult to do? They feel maybe contrary to your nature or you're just, yeah, there's just some sort of barrier and it's just not your thing.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:16

Yeah, this is going to sound weird.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:19

Any hobby I'm not instantly good at.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:23

My husband is a collector of hobbies.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:26

He loves to try new things, even if he's terrible at them.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:30

He does not care.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:31

There is no discomfort there for him.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:33

It's just the joy of a new thing.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:36

I am a creature of habit.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:38

I am a creature of, I don't know, liking to succeed.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:42

And I am apparently driven by that.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:44

And so I don't love trying new things.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:48

And when I do try new things, if I don't instantly enjoy it or instantly I'm good at it, I do not like that thing.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:53

And I do not keep doing it.

Hannah FordiceHost

1:55

So I have a very, very few hobbies because of that.

Robert PetersHost

2:00

Have we publicly outed your Enneagram number yet?

Hannah FordiceHost

2:03

I think we've talked about it.

Hannah FordiceHost

2:04

It

Robert PetersHost

2:04

feels like something we've talked about.

Robert PetersHost

2:06

Very Enneagram one, not to reduce all Enneagram ones out there, but.

Hannah FordiceHost

2:10

We're perfectionists.

Hannah FordiceHost

2:11

We're perfectionists.

Robert PetersHost

2:13

You are phenomenal.

Robert PetersHost

2:14

This is true of, I think, all Enneagram ones.

Robert PetersHost

2:16

You are phenomenal at the things you choose to do.

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