Sep 22, 2026 · 1 hr · 20 segments
Joining us today is Dr. Steven Keen, Honorary Professor at University College London, who famously predicted the 2008 financial crisis years in advance. He discusses how China’s economy works and why…
Steve KeenGuestJason SmithHostSo, you know, you've described, you also just now described China as an engineer-led state, but you also described them as running substantial budget deficits that channels them into infrastructure and production capacity rather than austerity.

And on this front, I've invented the only software package that enables that at the moment.

That's at least the only one you can get for free or low commercial price, which is now called Ravel.

And it's designed to do integrated double entry bookkeeping analysis of an economic structure, whatever that might be, a company, a country, et cetera, et cetera.

When you put government deficits into that, it becomes obvious that the government doesn't borrow money when it spends.

If they issue bonds, which they do not have to do to create money, issuing bonds is not an action which creates money.

The creation of money is a simple decision to spend more than you take back in taxation.

And the power of state should not be trivialized, even in a weak state like America or Germany, let alone a strong state like China.

It doesn't need to be back to gold or the usual commodity fetish that so many Austrian-style economists have.

So fiat money is one of the two main forms of money that are a market economy has, the other being credit-based money created by the banking sector.

And then the question is, how much are you creating? How does that compare to your current physical resources? How are you using it to mobilize the creation of new resources? That's what actually matters.
So, you know, you've described, you also just now described China as an engineer-led state, but you also described them as running substantial budget deficits that channels them into infrastructure and production capacity rather than austerity.

And on this front, I've invented the only software package that enables that at the moment.

That's at least the only one you can get for free or low commercial price, which is now called Ravel.

And it's designed to do integrated double entry bookkeeping analysis of an economic structure, whatever that might be, a company, a country, et cetera, et cetera.

When you put government deficits into that, it becomes obvious that the government doesn't borrow money when it spends.

If they issue bonds, which they do not have to do to create money, issuing bonds is not an action which creates money.

The creation of money is a simple decision to spend more than you take back in taxation.

And the power of state should not be trivialized, even in a weak state like America or Germany, let alone a strong state like China.

It doesn't need to be back to gold or the usual commodity fetish that so many Austrian-style economists have.

So fiat money is one of the two main forms of money that are a market economy has, the other being credit-based money created by the banking sector.

And then the question is, how much are you creating? How does that compare to your current physical resources? How are you using it to mobilize the creation of new resources? That's what actually matters.
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