The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Nov 4, 2026 · 46 min · 11 segments
*Featuring Dr. Paul "Paulie" Gavoni and Matt Cicoria* What happens when staying home from school becomes more reinforcing than attending? And how can educators, behavior analysts, and school leaders…
Paulie GavoniGuestWell, just to comment on your observation about taking parents, or pursuing legal remedies for absenteeism, just for a second, and I'll come back to your original question.
That can be a tool in the toolbox, I suppose, but that should be something that I would imagine would be of last resort.
am learning about this along with everyone else because it's a developing problem.
It's gotten a lot worse in the last several years and came to a high watermark during COVID because...
Absenteeism has gotten a little bit better, but it's not even close to pre-pandemic levels.
And there are real world consequences to chronic absenteeism that, and so, yeah, it's just been, it's been an issue that has been of considerable interest of mine.
You know, as far as when I work with, on specific teams, A lot of times absenteeism is one of many things that a team is trying to support a student with.
So a student might have a repertoire of problem behavior and might not come to school that frequently.
And so it's from my personal experience, it's very unusual for me to get a consult just for an absenteeism problem.
Very often there are other things that come along for the ride with that in terms of problem behavior while they're in school and things along those lines or some level of disenchantment or disengagement with school and things like that.
And all that says, I don't think I see a common intervention amongst schools, you know, and I think the reason why that's the case is that I think it's a very complicated problem that has multiple sources of influence.
You know, so if you're to ask the question, why do kids not come to school? The answer is it can be quite varied, and I'm happy to get into that.
But I want to maybe back up and just provide maybe some context, and I don't know if this is something you're planning to get into anyway, but I'll just maybe blurt it out here in a moment of impulsivity.
So if you want to compare this to, say, rates of, say, kids diagnosed with autism, You know, absenteeism dwarfs those, you know, some of those are sometimes referred to as low incidence disabilities.
You know, there are some states where chronic absenteeism is approaching almost 30%.
Well, just to comment on your observation about taking parents, or pursuing legal remedies for absenteeism, just for a second, and I'll come back to your original question.
That can be a tool in the toolbox, I suppose, but that should be something that I would imagine would be of last resort.
am learning about this along with everyone else because it's a developing problem.
It's gotten a lot worse in the last several years and came to a high watermark during COVID because...
Absenteeism has gotten a little bit better, but it's not even close to pre-pandemic levels.
And there are real world consequences to chronic absenteeism that, and so, yeah, it's just been, it's been an issue that has been of considerable interest of mine.
You know, as far as when I work with, on specific teams, A lot of times absenteeism is one of many things that a team is trying to support a student with.
So a student might have a repertoire of problem behavior and might not come to school that frequently.
And so it's from my personal experience, it's very unusual for me to get a consult just for an absenteeism problem.
Very often there are other things that come along for the ride with that in terms of problem behavior while they're in school and things along those lines or some level of disenchantment or disengagement with school and things like that.
And all that says, I don't think I see a common intervention amongst schools, you know, and I think the reason why that's the case is that I think it's a very complicated problem that has multiple sources of influence.
You know, so if you're to ask the question, why do kids not come to school? The answer is it can be quite varied, and I'm happy to get into that.
But I want to maybe back up and just provide maybe some context, and I don't know if this is something you're planning to get into anyway, but I'll just maybe blurt it out here in a moment of impulsivity.
So if you want to compare this to, say, rates of, say, kids diagnosed with autism, You know, absenteeism dwarfs those, you know, some of those are sometimes referred to as low incidence disabilities.
You know, there are some states where chronic absenteeism is approaching almost 30%.
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