Jun 23, 2026 · 1 hr 14 min · 18 segments
“We used to try to win every day. Now we’re willing to sacrifice entire months.” What does it mean to optimize ad spend when there’s no universal answer? Michael Ting (GM of DTC, JAXXON) joins…
Michael TingGuestConnor RolainHost
Connor MacDonaldHostI think that's a cool way to-- That's a, that's a very int- I don't know if I've heard someone position it that way before, but I think it's very...
You've, you've let like- You wanna be in the seat, uh, as the decision-maker, and you've let that guide your career.
And that's-- it sounds like that's kind of led you to this point, and every pl- every step along the way was, "How do I become the decision-maker?" And, and that's what...
Is that true? Would you say that's kind of been, like, the lens you've been, um, viewing your career and, like, each step through?
And I feel like you guys can empathize where right now I feel like I can make the decisions, I can make the big calls, but I'm spread s- over such a large surface area of just different areas that I don't actually feel like I'm making the big calls anymore, where it's really just trying to build up the team to be able to make the decisions that I would inside their shoes.
Um, so now that I finally feel like I've made it and I get to, like, look at myself as an operator, I'm like, "Wow, the good old days," right? [chuckles]
Well, and that's what I think, that's what a good leader does, is they, they empower their team to make, make decisions as well, so not everything, you know, ends up with them being the bottleneck.
If you, if you put 10 performance marketers in a room, heads of growth, CMOs, what have you, they'll all come from different backgrounds.
It-- There's no-- There's not, like, a clear path to getting into this e-com performance marketing world, which I think is really fun 'cause it just ha- it m- it means there's such a diverse group of people that are in these, like, you know, performance marketing roles now, which is, which is exciting and, and it, it just creates a lot of, um, different opinions and types of people, and I think it's, it's good for our, our industry as a whole that there's so much diversity and, and background of the people that get into these roles.
Of course, head-to-head, if I can hire one person, I'm gonna hire one with experience, but inside performance marketing.
But it's just been interesting where some things that are abundantly obvious to me, like testing methodologies, how to run a, you know, robust testing program, how to do things with, like, a lot of statistical rigor, how to get creative with numbers to achieve set goals, um, they come naturally to me.
But then some things that are just basic to others, like having an eye for creative or figuring out what a great partnership is, just completely foreign to me.
So I think that a lot of the value I added where Jackson was a lot of people who are amazing at brand, amazing at creative, just really able to go out there and ha- go out there with an entrepreneurial spirit, essentially, just adding some level of quantitative rigor to it, and then it's just been kind of the best of both worlds since I joined.
What-- Uh, I, I wanna get into Jackson and, and what you're focused on there in a second.
I think that's a cool way to-- That's a, that's a very int- I don't know if I've heard someone position it that way before, but I think it's very...
You've, you've let like- You wanna be in the seat, uh, as the decision-maker, and you've let that guide your career.
And that's-- it sounds like that's kind of led you to this point, and every pl- every step along the way was, "How do I become the decision-maker?" And, and that's what...
Is that true? Would you say that's kind of been, like, the lens you've been, um, viewing your career and, like, each step through?
And I feel like you guys can empathize where right now I feel like I can make the decisions, I can make the big calls, but I'm spread s- over such a large surface area of just different areas that I don't actually feel like I'm making the big calls anymore, where it's really just trying to build up the team to be able to make the decisions that I would inside their shoes.
Um, so now that I finally feel like I've made it and I get to, like, look at myself as an operator, I'm like, "Wow, the good old days," right? [chuckles]
Well, and that's what I think, that's what a good leader does, is they, they empower their team to make, make decisions as well, so not everything, you know, ends up with them being the bottleneck.
If you, if you put 10 performance marketers in a room, heads of growth, CMOs, what have you, they'll all come from different backgrounds.
It-- There's no-- There's not, like, a clear path to getting into this e-com performance marketing world, which I think is really fun 'cause it just ha- it m- it means there's such a diverse group of people that are in these, like, you know, performance marketing roles now, which is, which is exciting and, and it, it just creates a lot of, um, different opinions and types of people, and I think it's, it's good for our, our industry as a whole that there's so much diversity and, and background of the people that get into these roles.
Of course, head-to-head, if I can hire one person, I'm gonna hire one with experience, but inside performance marketing.
But it's just been interesting where some things that are abundantly obvious to me, like testing methodologies, how to run a, you know, robust testing program, how to do things with, like, a lot of statistical rigor, how to get creative with numbers to achieve set goals, um, they come naturally to me.
But then some things that are just basic to others, like having an eye for creative or figuring out what a great partnership is, just completely foreign to me.
So I think that a lot of the value I added where Jackson was a lot of people who are amazing at brand, amazing at creative, just really able to go out there and ha- go out there with an entrepreneurial spirit, essentially, just adding some level of quantitative rigor to it, and then it's just been kind of the best of both worlds since I joined.
What-- Uh, I, I wanna get into Jackson and, and what you're focused on there in a second.
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