Oct 13, 2026 · 39 min · 11 segments
Many people think that children are highly imaginative and creative, and that we lose those skills as we get older. Andrew Shtulman, PhD, Professor of Psychology at Occidental College, discusses why…
Andrew ShtulmanGuest
Deena WeisbergHost
And we're here primarily to talk about your most recent book called Learning to Imagine.
So just to start us off, can you give us a quick summary of the main argument that you make in that book?
The argument is essentially that imagination develops, that it's not something we are born with as a full-fledged trait.
There is a popular view of imagination that children are the most imaginative beings on the planet, and that with education particularly, like job training, adults lose their ability to be imaginative because we hone our skills at doing things that are very mundane and boring.
And children have this innate capacity that we no longer know how to use when we're adults.
But I argue that it's actually the opposite, that imagination is a skill that develops just like any other cognitive skill, and really what pushes that development is knowledge and reflection.
So the more you know, the more possibilities you can consider just beyond what you know.
The possibilities you know to be true are things you tinker with when considering novel possibilities, and so the more possibilities you know, the more fodder you have to work with.
And then also adults are more reflective about using their imagination, not necessarily relying on the first idea that pops to mind or the first evaluation that they have when they're considering a novel possibility.
So we have this popular view that children are the most imaginative or the most creative, and you're drawing on a lot of research to show that's actually not the case.
So my first question is have you gotten any pushback on the arguments that you're making here, people who just have trouble believing it?
But it's funny because sometimes I will give this whole spiel about, you know, the evidence that children are not particularly imaginative, and then it, it's like it just goes in one ear and out the other.
... and the, and the response is something like, "Yeah, children are really imaginative." And I'm like, "I've just been talking to you about how they're not."
And we're here primarily to talk about your most recent book called Learning to Imagine.
So just to start us off, can you give us a quick summary of the main argument that you make in that book?
The argument is essentially that imagination develops, that it's not something we are born with as a full-fledged trait.
There is a popular view of imagination that children are the most imaginative beings on the planet, and that with education particularly, like job training, adults lose their ability to be imaginative because we hone our skills at doing things that are very mundane and boring.
And children have this innate capacity that we no longer know how to use when we're adults.
But I argue that it's actually the opposite, that imagination is a skill that develops just like any other cognitive skill, and really what pushes that development is knowledge and reflection.
So the more you know, the more possibilities you can consider just beyond what you know.
The possibilities you know to be true are things you tinker with when considering novel possibilities, and so the more possibilities you know, the more fodder you have to work with.
And then also adults are more reflective about using their imagination, not necessarily relying on the first idea that pops to mind or the first evaluation that they have when they're considering a novel possibility.
So we have this popular view that children are the most imaginative or the most creative, and you're drawing on a lot of research to show that's actually not the case.
So my first question is have you gotten any pushback on the arguments that you're making here, people who just have trouble believing it?
But it's funny because sometimes I will give this whole spiel about, you know, the evidence that children are not particularly imaginative, and then it, it's like it just goes in one ear and out the other.
... and the, and the response is something like, "Yeah, children are really imaginative." And I'm like, "I've just been talking to you about how they're not."
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