Oct 18, 2026 · 58 min · 12 segments
My friend Matt Lloyd-Cape just released his book, Our Place*,* about the story of housing in Australia. Our views on housing differ somewhat…
Matt Lloyd-CapeGuestCameron MurrayHost
And I think there's a lot of uh, elements to the housing debate that aren't actually missing.

And that's because we have a really dominant narrative about supply, about red tape, about migration at the moment, particularly those kind of set, those kind of discussions are so front and center of our discussions of the housing crisis that we don't actually get to hear that much from academics who have spent 20, 30 years studying these issues.

who have a better understanding of the intricacies of the housing market being this dual market of both assets and commodity.

So I'm sure we'll get onto the NIMBY YIMBY debate at some point, but this idea that we can build our way to abundance, just let the private sector rip and they'll build us enough housing to make us all wonderfully housed in beautiful mid-density cities.

So I felt like actually it wasn't so much that there was something missing from the debate in terms of knowledge.

It was more in terms of communication and getting those ideas front and center of people's minds.
You said, if we let the market rip, we'll supply all these houses and we'll all be well housed.
I was going to say, and we'll all be rich, even though our biggest asset of houses is not worth anything because it's so cheap.

I mean, that's one of the great things in your book, which is this idea that I know you've mentioned it even before your book as well, but the idea that we can somehow, yeah, we'll build so many houses that they'll be cheap, but that won't put off investors from selling land at market basement prices.

That landlords will be really happy to rent out their homes for super cheap if there's more of them, but not rent controls because that would put off new construction.

I think it's just such a fascinating oversimplification and kind of a ridiculous argument that's made.

And I think there's a lot of uh, elements to the housing debate that aren't actually missing.

And that's because we have a really dominant narrative about supply, about red tape, about migration at the moment, particularly those kind of set, those kind of discussions are so front and center of our discussions of the housing crisis that we don't actually get to hear that much from academics who have spent 20, 30 years studying these issues.

who have a better understanding of the intricacies of the housing market being this dual market of both assets and commodity.

So I'm sure we'll get onto the NIMBY YIMBY debate at some point, but this idea that we can build our way to abundance, just let the private sector rip and they'll build us enough housing to make us all wonderfully housed in beautiful mid-density cities.

So I felt like actually it wasn't so much that there was something missing from the debate in terms of knowledge.

It was more in terms of communication and getting those ideas front and center of people's minds.
You said, if we let the market rip, we'll supply all these houses and we'll all be well housed.
I was going to say, and we'll all be rich, even though our biggest asset of houses is not worth anything because it's so cheap.

I mean, that's one of the great things in your book, which is this idea that I know you've mentioned it even before your book as well, but the idea that we can somehow, yeah, we'll build so many houses that they'll be cheap, but that won't put off investors from selling land at market basement prices.

That landlords will be really happy to rent out their homes for super cheap if there's more of them, but not rent controls because that would put off new construction.

I think it's just such a fascinating oversimplification and kind of a ridiculous argument that's made.
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