Jul 14, 2026 · 48 min · 11 segments
## Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast – Episode 383 Release Date: July 14, 2026 Why the Leadership Pipeline Is a Myth, and What Actually Works What if the most widely accepted strategy for…
David AshcraftGuest
Justin FormanHost
[air whooshing] So one of the things I love is, is, like, when this kind of, like, infusion of entrepreneurship meets ministry, it's both exciting and admittedly, it's probably confusing for a lot of people because they've, they've never integrated this idea of business and ministry, and I think that that's so much of your story.

Both as pastor but as people really understand the story of a church growing and scaling, there's a lot more similarities that people miss-

You know, it's funny, Justin, where some people feel like if you start doing what we were doing as a church, you're dipping into business and somehow that's not godly, that's not biblical enough-

And if our goal was never to be big, our goal was to introduce as many people to Jesus as we could.

And so if you do that and you do it successfully, and if people stay at the church, then it's automatically gonna grow.

Uh, so early on, we would look at a lot of churches to say they were ahead of us.

Our-- The way we grew is we constantly would say, "Let's look at a church twice our size."

So when we were 200 people, it was 400, then it was 800, and even today, we average about 28,000 people every weekend now.

And so we look at organizations or churches that are 50,000, 60,000, and there's not a lot.

And so what that's also forced us to do then is look outside the church and say, "Let's look at business models that have scaled-

[air whooshing] So one of the things I love is, is, like, when this kind of, like, infusion of entrepreneurship meets ministry, it's both exciting and admittedly, it's probably confusing for a lot of people because they've, they've never integrated this idea of business and ministry, and I think that that's so much of your story.

Both as pastor but as people really understand the story of a church growing and scaling, there's a lot more similarities that people miss-

You know, it's funny, Justin, where some people feel like if you start doing what we were doing as a church, you're dipping into business and somehow that's not godly, that's not biblical enough-

And if our goal was never to be big, our goal was to introduce as many people to Jesus as we could.

And so if you do that and you do it successfully, and if people stay at the church, then it's automatically gonna grow.

Uh, so early on, we would look at a lot of churches to say they were ahead of us.

Our-- The way we grew is we constantly would say, "Let's look at a church twice our size."

So when we were 200 people, it was 400, then it was 800, and even today, we average about 28,000 people every weekend now.

And so we look at organizations or churches that are 50,000, 60,000, and there's not a lot.

And so what that's also forced us to do then is look outside the church and say, "Let's look at business models that have scaled-
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