The Scandal at The Heart of The Energy Transition | Ep275: Jan Rosenow

Around two-thirds of the energy we put into today’s energy system ends up as rejected heat. So are we measuring the energy transition all wrong? Professor Jan Rosenow joins Michael Liebreich to unpack the “primary energy fallacy”: why focusing on the energy going into the system can obscure the useful energy we actually get out. They explore why electrification can dramatically reduce energy demand, and what genuine systems thinking means for efficiency, waste heat and infrastructure. They also examine hydrogen versus electrification, including Jan’s review of more than 60 independent studies on hydrogen for heating, why hydrogen continues to attract support despite its disadvantages in many end uses, and how incumbent industries resist technological change. **Key topics discussed:** - The primary energy fallacy - Why useful energy matters - The hidden inefficiency of fossil fuels - Electrification and shrinking energy demand - Rethinking energy efficiency through systems thinking - Making better use of waste heat - Why energy statistics can misrepresent the transition - Hydrogen vs electrification for heating - Why incumbent technologies resist change **Leadership Circle** Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. **Links:** - Jan Rosenow’s bio: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/find-an-expert/professor-jan-rosenow - Jan Rosenow’s Substack: https://janrosenow.substack.com/ - Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Sankey Diagram: https://flowcharts.llnl.gov/sites/flowcharts/files/2026-08/2024-us-energy-flowchart-homepage.jpg - Michael Liebreich’s “The Five Superheroes Of The Transition” article: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-net-zero-will-be-harder-than-you-think-and-easier-part-ii-easier/ - Our World In Data Energy Consumption Chart: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption - Innovation and Its Enemies: Why People Resist New Technologies book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovation-Its-Enemies-People-Technologies/dp/019046703 - Jonathan Maxwell on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcN3Bqq8ehA - Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w - Jorgo Chatzimarkakis on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_NCiEhprSOc - Subscribe to Cleaning Up’s newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ **Acronyms:** - LNG: Liquefied Natural Gas - IEA: International Energy Agency, - EIA: Energy Information Administration. - IIASA: International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis - OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development **Chapters:** - 00:00 Introduction - 07:34 Primary Energy Fallacy - 15:14 Fossil Fuel Inefficiency - 24:44 Rethinking Energy Efficiency - 27:05 Using Waste Heat - 35:00 Misleading Energy Statistics - 43:12 Hydrogen vs Electrification - 49:48 Resisting Technological Change - 58:00 Hydrogen Europe - 01:03:14 Outro